Your Heritage Is Your History

Speaker 1: (00:02)

So are you ready? You can totally take time. Time. I didn’t mean to like I’m totally ready. Yeah. No, it’s good. Just kicking my daughter out of her room so she can go answer the door when the AC guy that’s great. Cool. Cool. And you got the lights figured out bright lights? No. Cause a lot of times I use her room cause it’s the quietest room in the house and I was like, no, I don’t need videos. She’s like, well, I’ve got this light. I can turn it off. I was like, I don’t need video. We’re just trying to be helpful, which is nice. Super nice. She lends you her room. She can help you with video. Absolutely handling. So how are you? Thank you so much for, um, giving me some time today. No, I haven’t decided yet. No, I’m doing great. How did, how did you get involved in this? 

 Speaker 1: (00:44)

Like what, what’s your goal here? Well, it depends on what you mean by that. Um, how did I, why are you taking your time to make a podcast? Um, okay. So, um, I was like, well, like I connected from your friend, um, the interview, I have a podcast. That’s what I meant by out. How much do you know or don’t know? Um, yeah, so, so, um, what happened with me is a man basically I was not very interested in, in ancestry or DNA. Um, and I’m still sort of like struggling with my relationship with that. But, uh, about two years ago, a man, uh, contacted me and said, Hey, I, um, I think I’m your real dad. And so as opposed to the man that raised you and that you think is your real dad. So, um, so we did a DNA test and he was correct. 

 Speaker 1: (01:41)

Um, so there’s been sort of like a, like sort of a personal unraveling of, um, understanding of, of like who I am and um, where I come from and what that, even what that means, if that means anything. And then while I was, um, studying all of that and trying to figure out, um, sort of heads or tails of what, what to do with this new information, I CA I, I want to say I stumbled across, but, but really, um, it wasn’t that accidental, but I, um, I learned about how many people have NPE experiences and, um, and sort of surprised DNA results. So that became very interesting to me. And, um, and, and then so much of it is all wrapped in like in secrecy. So I thought, um, what better way to address this, um, then by talking about it. So I made a podcast. Cool. What’s your, what’s your real job? Do you have a real job? Uh, yeah. What makes you think? I guess it’s not my real job. Um, I, uh, no, I’m, uh, I worked as a, a marriage and family therapist, licensed marriage and family therapist in Los Angeles. So, yeah. Um, but you, so, but you, so tell me about you though. So you, you work in gene, genealogy and DNA. Um, can you, can you tell me like what a day is like for you or what, or like what your job sort of really is? 

 Speaker 1: (03:26)

Well, so my job basically is to figure out how to take the information that people are getting from their DNA testing company and break it down into a format that they can understand and can action action items from the DNA test. Cause most people that get a test have no idea what their next steps are. And then if they try to take some next steps, they’re almost immediately mired in, ah, I don’t know what this means, and I don’t know what to do. And I don’t know what these words mean, and I don’t know how to navigate this website. And so our, our role, my company is called your DNA guide. So our role is really to educate. Yeah. Oh, okay. So people come to you with their, like, with their, with their, just like their Malin kit results or they’re coming in with their like, um, like when I did it before I did a Malin kit, when I did it with my, um, with this biological, with this biological father, um, it was like, I went to a lab and then they mailed a piece of paper back that had a lot of numbers on it, but it was not. 

 Speaker 1: (04:31)

Um, and then it just said sort of like what the results were, but so, so people come to you more with like 23 and me results and the ancestry.com and stuff like that. Exactly. So we deal best with there’s five genetic genealogy testing companies that we mostly deal with. So that’s ancestry 23 and me, my heritage, family tree DNA and living DNA. Those are really the big five that we consider to be companies involved in helping people trace their ancestry using DNA. Okay. Um, and do you feel like, um, well, no, I’m not going to ask that question yet. Um, let’s talk about, um, how you got into this. What, um, what, how did this start for you? Where did this come from? I came into this industry, which we call genetic genealogy in a different way than most of the other genetic genealogists come in. 

 Speaker 1: (05:25)

So most people that are involved in this now, helping people understand their test results, find their family, whether it’s your biological father or your three times great grandfather, whoever it is you’re looking for. Um, they came into it because before they were just doing genealogy and then using paper based research to figure out these kinds of questions. And then now it’s all about using DNA. So I came in at the other way around. So when I was in college, I was actually part of a study. We tried to build a, that had genetic information and genealogy information in it. So this was back in 2000, this was basically the first effort to do anything like this. And it was called the Sorenson molecular genealogy foundation. And so I traveled during college to different locations throughout the United States, essentially giving lectures and convincing people that we could do this, that we could take someone’s DNA and figure out where they were from and who they were related to. 

 Speaker 1: (06:24)

And so, um, anyway, that project eventually was sold to ancestry and became the foundation of their product. And so then at that point, um, I was a stay at home mom, basically working, you know, from home and kind of left, what do I do now? And I ended up essentially starting my own company, just again, to educate people no matter where they’ve tested or who they’ve tested or what kind of tests they’ve taken, how can I help you understand what you have and do something with it? Cool. Cool. Um, my one question that came up while you were describing that is you said that it was a database of genetics and gene genealogy. Is there a difference between genetics and genealogy or are there, right. So I guess when I say genealogy, I mean the actual paper research. So when you contributed to our study, you gave us actually a blood sample of back then, and then you gave us a piece of paper that had your parents, your grandparents, and your great grandparents on it. 

 Speaker 1: (07:23)

And so it was that it’s really that correlation that makes everything so powerful is, uh, for example, in your ethnicity results that you’re going to get, that’s all based on what we call a reference populations, they had to test a bunch of people from Italy. So they would know what DNA from Italy looks like, so that we could tell you your from it. Right. Right. So, yeah. Yeah. Okay. So genealogy is okay. Okay, great. So one is like the paper trail and one is the, the DNA I’m like, okay, cool. I guess. Right. I understand that. Okay. Interesting. Um, so that’s how it is for you and you’ve been doing it for awhile. Um, so what kind of things have you, you, since you were, especially because you were a part of that very first program, um, what, what kind of things have you seen change about DNA testing over the past decade or so? 

 Speaker 1: (08:16)

Oh my gosh. So, so when we first started out, we were only able to do what we call Y DNA testing, which traces only like your direct mail line. So only men can take that test and it’s their father’s, father’s, father’s, father’s father’s line. And it’s really helpful. It’s still useful kind of DNA, but it’s not nearly as effective at, you know, finding family as what we call oughta Somol DNA, which is the kind of DNA that we take now with 23 and me and ancestry. So autosomal, DNA, traces, both sides of your family, gives you all this information about relatives and relationships and things like that. But why do you name was much more restricted? And then we also had mitochondrial DNA, which traces only your direct maternal line. So you have the same mitochondrial DNA as your mother, same as her mother and so on and so on and so on. 

 Speaker 1: (09:06)

So back then, you know, we started getting people excited about this idea that DNA could help define your family, but then people, women especially were like, well, well, I don’t have Y DNA, you know? And so it was a lot like, well, yeah, you could ask your brother or your dad, you know, so it was just, it was harder to, to get an answer because there was just so much limitation. And so then when autosomal DNA came online, which was really around 2007, okay. Then, you know, things started to open up a little bit more. Um, and so back in those two thousands, and we only had wine mitochondrial, we also had the kind of test that you took to find out if your father was your father. And we call that just a straight paternity test. Right. And that’s totally different kind of tests than what we’re using now, but it was very effective at relationships that were very close. 

 Speaker 1: (09:57)

So we could tell if this guy was your dad, but we wouldn’t be able to tell if he was your second cousin like that just wasn’t possible. Oh, right. So yeah. So when in 2007 it finally became possible to investigate these more interesting, deeper branching relationships. So now you can tell if someone was your second cousin, you could tell if they were your fourth cousin, and this is huge, right. We’re trying to figure out who your third grade grandparent is. Right. So we’ve kind of had the ability to do paternity testing really since the mid nineties really effectively, but there was no way to go beyond that because if you’d gotten to the point in your life where your father had passed away and you had maybe a sibling, even sibling testing, wasn’t really fantastic. Like it wasn’t always definitive. And so, but now, now hands down, you can tell absolutely the difference between a full sibling and a half sibling, very easy to do now. 

 Speaker 1: (10:56)

So it’s just really blown up in this whole idea of tracing your family and being able to identify people in your genetic family tree that you didn’t know were there. Amazing. Um, and, um, what, so I have, well, I have that, I just thought it was that there’s a lot of like a little bit of controversy within the, um, sort of like the Facebook support support groups, um, for people that say that there is not a sibling test, but you just talked about siblings as an example. Um, do you know what people mean by that? Well, I think the biggest educational hurdle that there is for people who are looking, especially for a biological parent, is how to interpret what I see on my match page. Because in your DNA match page, the company is never telling you sip rights. Okay. The company’s never telling you half sip. 

 Speaker 1: (11:59)

Got it. Right. There has to be. And that’s the thing DNA can’t actually definitively tell you that necessarily. Um, there has to be at least one more piece of information. So for example, you and your mom share half of your DNA, right? That’s, that’s the nature, right. But you and your brother also share half of your DNA. So if there’s two people on your match page, once your mom and one’s your brother, you really can’t tell the difference. I mean, there are genetic ways you can tell the difference, but in general, you can’t tell the, just looking at the data, just looking at the data, you have to know something else. So like, for example, looking at your brother, maybe if he listed like at 23 and me or my heritage, sometimes it lists their age. And so, you know, if he’s saying that he’s 25, Oh, well, then he can’t be your dad.  

Speaker 1: (12:50)

Right, right, right. Okay. So that, that one extra piece of information gives you what you need to help you define that relationship. Okay. So there is, so it’s about that, that I want to say like extraneous information, but that’s not really, it’s not extraneous. It’s, it’s the, it’s the genealogies, the supplemental. Right, right. It’s like, okay. Okay, cool. So it’s so just the DNA itself only gives you, like, it gives you the variables, but you need, it’s like you need, right. It’s like a hint and that’s why it’s, it’s dangerous and it’s really emotional. And it can be, um, I mean, it’s an emotional journey. Anyway, if you’re an adoptee and you’re searching for your family and you’ve taken a DNA test and you’re actively looking, you’re looking at a DNA match page. And most people for the first time are seeing the names of biological relatives. 

 Speaker 1: (13:48)

And that alone can be really powerful, but then you dig a little deeper and you think, okay, well, how am I related to this person? Who are they? Because ultimately you’re looking for your parents, that your parents haven’t taken a DNA test. And so you’re left with this group of cousins and you have to Wade through this information to get out of them, the names of these two people that you want to know. And it’s a really, it’s a technical process. And there’s, you know, there’s a way to do it. In fact, I just barely wrote a book about how to do this process, but it’s, it’s really, it’s really easy to take a wrong turn, right. Because the DNA is not that good at telling you very exact things. Right. So I can tell you that you’re all in the same. I want to say same family, like same ballpark, same area, but not, but relationship specific relationships. 

 Speaker 1: (14:40)

Do you feel like that is, um, is that the majority of your clients that you get is adoptees looking for answers about their history? You know, it’s not the majority there a fair number, but I deal with so many, just regular people who want to find their great grandfather and one find their two times great grandmother and their they’re distant ancestors. They know all their close people they’re looking for. They’re distant people. And this technology is very powerful in helping them determine that as well. What do you think it is about, um, about, about that information that people want? Like, do you, what is it about our histories that you think people are so attracted to or interested in? That’s such a good question. I think there’s something inherent in us that drives us to know who our people are, whether that’s just the simple things of wanting to understand maybe where I came from in a very broad and general sense to, I need to know the names of all of these people. And there’s this wide range of people who have this curiosity, but I doubt you can come across anyone who isn’t interested. Everybody wants to know who they are, everybody 

 Speaker 1: (15:59)

interesting. Okay. Um, yeah, it just seems like, I mean, and, and I didn’t know the information is becoming easier and easier to get, so that is sort of like, I’m inspired like a new, some new generations of interest in this, but, um, 

 Speaker 1: (16:12)

yeah. It’s certainly like a growing movement. Absolutely. I mean, if you look, if you just went to YouTube and you asked and you do a search term, like DNA reveal or something like that, there are so many videos. People giving themselves looking at their DNA ethnicity results for the first time. And they are genuinely nervous about what it’s going to reveal. They are thrilled and sometimes disappointed about what they see. And again, it’s this drive and these are young people, you know, these are people in their twenties that are, they’re hungry for this connection. And I think especially as our culture moves away from traditions and families, and we’re just so much more widespread than we ever used to be, you know, it used to be, everybody lived in the same place and you saw your family all the time and blah, blah, blah. But now it’s just not like that. 

 Speaker 1: (17:07)

We’re just such a mobile society that so many people don’t live near family. And so they, I think they long for that connection to someplace some things that they can kind of grab onto and say, this is me. Yeah. Yeah. That sounds, that sounds very, I, what I, what I heard the most was the connection. People are just hungry for connection. I think that’s, that’s what resonates the most with me. Um, so what do you wish people knew about DNA testing? Um, before they got into it? If, if there, if anything, I just feel like, I mean, I’m PR I specifically navigate, um, the world of like NPS the most, but, um, but I’m curious if you feel like there’s information that you, when people come to you, you wish you wish everybody could know, or there’s like a misunderstanding about DNA testing before they begin. Well, I think, especially for your audience, people who are looking for biological family that they know is out there. Um, but for anybody understand you’re going to find them. And I think, you know, at the outset, maybe it’s like this little curiosity, like, yeah, I’m adopted kind of fun, you know, figure out who my people are. Sure. I’ll try it. That kind of attitude going in. Is it that cavalier? Let’s try it. I feel like we need to be really serious. 

 Speaker 1: (18:38)

Like you will. Right. And I tell people all the time, so I lecture all over the world really. And one of the first things I say is, before you take a test, understand it’s going to reveal your relationships. And I think, again, those people on YouTube, I was just talking about, I think most of them don’t understand that they think it’s an ethnicity and they don’t know there’s a match page. Right. You know, they have no idea, tons of those. Yeah. Right. And so you need to know this is going to find people and it will do it in a way that’s unequivocally understandably scary, because all the sudden you’re being faced with relationships and people that it changes the way you view yourself, it changes the way that you view your parents. And it understandably just disrupts, disrupts. That’s a great word. Yes. And if people just understood going in, yeah. 

 Speaker 1: (19:36)

This is, this works, this technology, it works. Right. Right. No, I think you’re right. I think it’s presented as a, um, as something that’s, that’s fun and, um, and funding for information. And then, and, and for a lot of people, it is for a lot of people it’s fine. But for all the people that end up with surprise results, um, yeah. Disrupt is a, is a really great word that, um, I feel like should be more present in the, in the discussion that this can really disrupt your understanding of things, um, one way or another. Yes. And along with that, just understanding that disruption may happen in that when it does, or if it does that you then have this chance to, to redefine right. Take the disruption. Yes. It’s not a, uh, I have to now cut off this branch. It’s always about grafting in, it’s never about cutting edge. 

 Speaker 1: (20:41)

And I feel like that’s like a message that needs to get out there more because so many people, just, again, they find their dad, isn’t their dad and they feel like I have to cut this limit when you don’t shouldn’t you never should, because it’s still so much part of who you are. Family is more than DNA. Right. Right. So it’s about just grafting in this new information and not cutting out anything. Right. Um, I think the same is true. I mean, I have a lot of clients that aren’t dealing with the, uh, miss attributed parent, but it’s a grandparent or great grandparent. These people long passed away and, and maybe you have very warm and wonderful memories of them when you were 10, you know, and they were 80. Right. You know, I think one of the things I love most about this idea that you can find out information that you didn’t know before is that it allows us to be more generous in the way that we’re thinking about ourselves and our own mistakes. And, and you, you appreciate that your 80 year old grandmother was once 19. Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. I think about that all the time.  

Speaker 1: (21:56)

Yes. And we need to really understand that and appreciate that because of the choices and things that happened to her at 19, she became the woman we loved and respected it. Yup. Yup. You know, and we’re all that way. And how, if you’re in a place right now where you’re making mistakes or you have made mistakes that you don’t feel like you can overcome look to your ancestors, that people do this, they did it, they overcame it. They became someone, they had a family. Eventually they obviously raised your mother or father, whoever, you know, it’s, it’s just so comforting to think, man, she wasn’t perfect and I’m not her fault, but her life turned out great. And I loved her. That means I can still be somebody that people could love. You know, God, I could just end the interview right here. Um, yeah, no, you just did so much. 

Speaker 1: (22:49)

I mean, just for me personally, um, that was just huge. You really put a lot of words to things I’ve been struggling with. That was really awesome. Um, I’m glad I, I think about this a lot. Um, where did you come up with that? Um, yeah, no, I am really fascinated. I think, I think because I think also within like the community that I talk with so much is work. People are coming at it from such a place of like shock and it’s often like couched with disappointment and, um, yes, and sometimes devastation for people to, to, um, discover that their parents weren’t truthful for one reason or another or in one way or another to them. And, but, um, and, and so, and I think you’re right, go ahead. That’s like the biggest emotion that I feel from people when I, when I do cause I have, so we do a, we call it mentoring where I sit down with someone, we open up your test results, we’re on zoom and we’re, you know, going through everything. 

 Speaker 1: (23:54)

And I’ve been in the position many times where I’m the one breaking this information. So I was going to ask about that. Yes. Right. And, and it’s, and it’s hard because I can see it immediately, but I have to, I have to be sure. Number one. So I have to ask a series of questions to make sure I understand what I’m looking at. As far as the people, they know their relationship to versus the people that they don’t. And then I have to be in a position to say, okay, this is what I see. And this is how we can test it basically. And the number one emotion that people feel as I as is their right. Absolutely is betrayal because you do feel like you’ve been lied to, and that’s, that’s what hurts people the most. It’s not that this happened, but that they were lied to essentially.  

Speaker 1: (24:40)

And that’s, that’s the hardest thing to get over for sure. For sure. Yeah. That resonates with me for sure. That there’s um, yeah. It’s and that there seems to be some sort of like community, community, um, what am I, there’s a confusion between generations about what is the most important issue at hand, whether it’s the, the lying or the event itself or, um, yeah. Yeah. It’s just whether it’s generational or not. It just seems like it’s just fraught with like miscommunication and misunderstanding and P an individual perception or under, you know, um, suggested subjective. So we actually, so my mom was adopted and we found her biological family using DNA testing. And, you know, she always knew she was adopted. It wasn’t a surprise or anything. Our parents always told her. She always knew. And, um, when we finally decided to try it to pursue this Avenue and we were able to find her mother’s family, um, they, they were amazing and they handled it really, really well, but, and I learned a lot from them and the way that they, um, thought about my mom’s mom who has passed away, um, in that their number one emotion about it really was not anger or betrayal or anything, but was, um, empathy. 

 Speaker 1: (26:10)

They remember her as being such a loving kind gregarious person who loved children. Like all of her grandkids say that they’re her favorite. That’s the kind of, you know, she loved kids and immediately all the grandkids were like, Oh my gosh, that must have been so hard for her. Right. Because she loved kids so much that it must have just ripped her heart out to leave her baby. And, and that kind of empathy is what really want people to, to get an understand that these, most of the time women are making such hard choices and they’re doing the best they can with the information that they have at the time. And it’s such an important feeling to just understand where they’re coming from and give them the benefit of the doubt, which I feel like our family did for my mom. Yeah. That’s really beautiful. Yeah. I wish there was more, um, more, more, more just in general, like understanding of what I think it comes down to is like what women, what women are up against. I can’t, when it comes to these decisions. It’s really hard. Yes. Um, so as a person that, that, that can see within results, when you were discovering that, um, before the person, you know, on zoom or during a mentoring experience, um, since you’ve had this experience of telling people, um, like surprising information or, um, miss attributed. 

 Speaker 2: (27:42)

Mmm.  

Speaker 1: (27:45)

Okay. For fraternity, um, I’ve really struggled for that word. Um, D do you have a prediction or do you, do you and your colleagues, um, toy toy with an, with a number about how many people are actually NP NPS, or, or how, how, how, like common or prevalent this is, well, the official, like scientifically published number is like 2% or something. I think we, we feel like it’s higher in our industry just because it’s disproportionate because that’s, who’s testing, you’ve got it. People that suspect it, they want to know they’re taking a test. So yeah, the, of the number of people who’ve tested, the number is much higher, but overall in the population, it’s probably around two things. So, okay. That’s interesting. That’s, that’s a lower number than I’ve heard, but, but you’re, you’re, um, explanation makes one, it makes total sense. I mean, I think, I think all the time about how skewed the data is, um, that word, cause it’s just a very specific, um, pocket like of the world.  

Speaker 1: (28:52)

That’s doing this right now, so, right. Well, and that’s why I tell people who are testing, who aren’t, or don’t think they’re looking for a mis-attributed parent or grandparent or great-grandparent. I basically have told everybody if it hasn’t happened to you yet that an adoptee has showed up on your match list, it will because that’s just the nature of, of family networks. When you go back in your pedigree far enough, I mean, all of us have thousands of fourth cousins. Yeah. One of them is adopted is pretty darn good. Right. And the chances that they’re going to take a test to find out is also really good. And so I tell people all the time, like, even if in your own nuclear family or extended family, you don’t have any of these events guaranteed. Given enough time, you’re going to find a second or third or cousin that’s contacting you for information because they’re looking for a family. Right. [inaudible] yeah. I actually have had that happen. I had a cousin contact me. Yup. Yup. And I couldn’t be helpful at all because she was, I, because I am so fresh to my NPE status that I was like, I recognize that we are related and I can help you with nothing. Here is the information that I gave her, the information I had. Um, but she and I are still in touch. So, so hopefully will something will come of it. But, um, yeah. So what is the hardest part of your job?  

Speaker 1: (30:22)

Um, you know, I think the hardest part of my job can be summed up in an experience I had maybe six months ago. So I go to a lot of conferences, like genealogies conferences, where people come to take classes and learn how to find the right record to find their ancestor or whatever. And so of course I lecture on how to use DNA to do this. And I also have a booth and I, um, so people come by my booth and ask questions and I sell my book and everything. And so it was in between classes or I’m sorry, it was during class. So everybody’s in class. So the exhibit hall is usually really empty and we all kind of sit around and chat. And there was this lady kind of wandering through the exhibit hall and she sees my sign at my booth, which says I have DNA now what is find sets? And she looks up at the sign and she just like, big sigh.  

Speaker 1: (31:13)

I just can’t do this. And I said, what do you mean what’s going on? She goes, why it was just sitting in a DNA class and I can’t understand anything they’re saying, and it’s just way above my head. I’ll never understand this, but I really want to find my family. And I just, and that’s what just breaks my heart because this technology is so powerful, but there’s so many people who are unwilling to use it or try it because it’s science. And I feel like I won’t do science, you know? And I feel like you can, you can learn anything, especially if you’re determined enough and you just pick the right teacher, you just need somebody who can tell you only the things you need to know and not, and, and it’s really, it’s a focused effort. And, and I feel like so many people could get so much farther along and figuring out who they are or who their family is with this technology.  

Speaker 1: (32:15)

There’s just this education gap. There’s this almost as soon as they think it’s science, they’re like, Oh, that’s not me. I can’t do that. I’ve never been good at, you know, so that’s hard. It’s hard for me to think that there’s people out there who are really trying to do this and they’re struggling because they don’t know where to turn to ask for help. Yeah, I think that’s so, yeah. Yeah. I, um, that’s really interesting cause it’s making me wonder, because I think about myself. I can’t help it, but think about myself during this conversation. Um, which I did not anticipate. Diane, I’ll be honest. Um, I, uh, I, because I, I have my DNA, I, my 23 and me results and I just look at them and I don’t feel overwhelmed. Um, I just, I’m not, I don’t feel much of anything. And I wonder if it’s because I just don’t really understand it, so I don’t know where to go.  

Speaker 1: (33:10)

And so the default feeling is just a sort of, um, I don’t, it’s not apathy. It’s not that it’s not again. It’s just like, if I looked at a piece of paper with another language on it, like I can’t read it. So I wonder if that’s going on for me. Okay. I don’t know, honestly, if you are, you’re my target audience, right. You’ve taken a DNA test. You aren’t necessarily interested in genealogy like doing paper research, but you’ve done the test because you had at least that much interest to, to try it. And now you have no idea what to do next. Right. Like I’ve got this. Okay. That’s cool. And was that it like, was that my a hundred dollars worth? And so that was good enough. I’m done. Or is there something more I can get out of this? And the thing is like, again with just a few little tips, so like we have a YouTube channel and so on the YouTube channel, there’s like just two videos about 23 and me.  

Speaker 1: (34:11)

And like, they’re just meant to show you, Hey, did you try this? Did you know that this was here so that you can be like, Oh, I didn’t know how that worked or that’s, that’s interesting. I’ll try pushing that by, you know, there’s just so much information on these websites that you’re just like, right, right, right, right. Absolutely. Totally. This is really, this has been, this has been really interesting. Um, I mean, I knew it would be not like surprise. I’m just, um, yeah. I, I, I’m not sure if I knew what to expect, but, um, and, and what let’s see.  

Speaker 3: (34:50)

Mmm.  

Speaker 1: (34:52)

What do you have, do you have, um, a story in particular that’s like your most exciting discovery that you’ve made as your job? Well, I mean, it’s most exciting story, as I say, it’s probably your mom. Yeah. I mean, with her, it was a very slow process because, you know, I had her tested at 23 and me in 2007 when they first launched the test. And so the databases were tiny and there was nobody really, I didn’t know how to read the information or what was going on. I was still learning right along with everyone else. And at the time my mom didn’t want to pursue it. She took the test because at that time 23 and me was also offering a pretty substantial health report. And that’s really what she was interested in is, you know, with no health history at all, and she’s getting older, you know, what should she be looking for? 

Speaker 1: (35:43)

And that’s really why she did it. And, you know, kind of as a bonus, we got this matched list. And again, like almost everyone else who takes the test, even me, I was like, Oh cool. I’m actually, we didn’t know what to expect. Um, and so we, we found a second cousin on that match list pretty quickly. Um, and so second cousins, the way relationships work is that second cousins are going to share great grand parents with you. So every person has four sets of great grandparents, which means if I’m looking at this guy’s genealogy chart, he has all four of his great grandparents listed on his chart. So it’s like, okay, cool. Well, one of those four is also my mom’s right. Grandparents, you know? And so this was, again, that, that moment where you’re like, Oh my gosh, this is a relative, like, we’ve never seen one before, and this is what they look like.  

Speaker 1: (36:42)

And we ended up corresponding with this person and I was very upfront. And that’s another technique that we teach is how to correspond with your matches. And that’s really important. You’re reaching out to someone. Yeah. It’s like, do you say everything right away? Like, you don’t want to scare people off. You want information, but you don’t want to be dishonest. You know, there’s like this kind of dance that you have to do, but we decided just to kind of be really upfront. And he was, he was awesome. He was like, you know what, I’m going to need a minute. 

 Speaker 1: (37:13)

And, um, anyway, so we ended up working with him and, and figuring out which of his great-grandparent couples was, um, was the cuddle. And so then if you think about working down from there, so now I have a great grandparent couple, which means one of their children is one grandparents. Right. And so we’re like, okay, cool. So let’s look at their kids and see if we can figure out which ones the grandparents they had just that’s so funny. Cause I was just now going like, right. That makes sense. Unless there’s a lot of kids. Oh my gosh, you’ve gotta be kidding me. And so again, at that time, my mom was not interested in, she didn’t really want to know because she just didn’t want my grandmother who is still alive to ever feel like my mom wanted a different way. She, yeah, I’ve heard that before, before you just didn’t want to hurt her.  

Speaker 1: (38:11)

And so we just kind of left it at that. And it was fascinating though, because this great grandparent couple was the immigrant couple. They had been born in this little place called Odessa Russia and these little tiny communities. And basically because of a lot of historical forces at that time, tons of people in these communities just picked up all together and moved to North Dakota. And so we had tons of DNA matches from North Dakota because most of the families were like ours, like 10 kids, you had 10 kids, you know? And so it was really interesting to see and just learn about their history. And it was fascinating. And that was really cool. Our DNA has traveled that distance. We used to live in Russia and now we’re in the United States. And anyway, it was really cool. But you know, slowly we started getting a lot more matches and testing with more companies, which gave us even more matches. 

 Speaker 1: (39:10)

And again, I, I was working cases now for other people and I had figured out how to work it. And I knew that if I spent enough time in my mom’s DNA matches, I could figure things out, but I didn’t because she didn’t want to know. So we just kind of kept going along at the pace we were going along. And we came up with another second cousin, a different testing company who was related now on my mom’s dad’s side. And so that was interesting. But again, that second cousin was really helpful and we found a set of great parents, but we didn’t move any further forward. And then my grandmother passed away. And so at that point, I think my mom was like, okay, she’s, she’s gone now. And I’m at peace with that. And yeah, if you want to try to figure this out, let’s try to figure this out essentially. And so we started, you know, doing a little bit more, but Hey, I got three kids, I got a dog, two cats, husband, the job, you know, it wasn’t like I had all the time in the world to sit down and figure this out. But then, um, come Christmas. So we live in South Florida. My parents live in Washington state. And so they like to come down during the winter, like that works out. 

 Speaker 1: (40:24)

Um, and so they came down to visit and this was the Christmas of 2017. And I was doing a little bit of work. My mom was sitting on the couch, reading a book and I happened to pull up her results at ancestry DNA. And I saw half-brother and I’m just staring at the screen. And I look over at my mom, she’s just reading, coming back to this. And I look over at my mom and I was like, Hey mom, you have a new DNA, man. She looks up exactly right. Just Hong Kong. And so we, you know, I said, I think this is who this is. And she was like, Oh my gosh. And I said, yeah. And it was just initials. Like it didn’t have anybody’s name. And so I was like, well, do you want me to send him a message? And she said, sure, why not? 

 Speaker 1: (41:12)

And so I send this message that basically says, Hey, my mom’s possum, she’s super fun. You would love to get to know her. We don’t need or want anything from you necessarily. We just, aren’t interested in a relationship if you were interested or at least any information you want to share about your family and that’s it. And I let it go. And then we both like gave a huge deep breath and said, okay, we didn’t hear anything and might have an older sister. And this whole journey, my older sister has kind of been like, Dan, what are you doing? You know, all sorts of scary things can happen from this. Like, we don’t know the situation of her birth. It could be really terrible. Like, I don’t know if we want to do this. You know, she’s been really hesitant kind of the voice of caution where I’m like, no, I just power let’s find out, you know? 

 Speaker 1: (41:59)

Um, anyways, so she was kinda like, she look what you’ve done now, you know, you reached out to this person. They don’t want to talk to mom. And so, you know, and I was like, Oh, what did I do? And so I waited all the way til April and in April, I was going to be giving this like mini lesson to a bunch of teenagers about how to use a website called family search, which is like a free genealogy website that you can use to find lots of records. Anyway, it’s really, it’s a really great website, but you have to talk to teenagers. So I had to make it right. Like what could I do? And I thought, Oh, I know I’ll put in the name of the woman that I think is my mom’s mom, um, from the research that we’d done. And so I put her name into family search and it pulls up her obituary. 

 Speaker 1: (42:48)

And I was like, what habituate? So I’m reading the obituary. It lists all of her children and where they’re living and all these things about her life. And I was like, Oh my gosh. Cause as soon as I saw the name of one of the boys, I could tell that was the initials that were on the websites. And so I knew who it was and it said where he lived. And so I thought I could look them up, like in the yellow pages. So I go online like Dax online.com, like the website is down and I’m like, it’s 2018. How is the website down? And so I was like, it’s okay. Be cool. Just wait, you know, refresh your browser. And so I was like, okay. So then I got distracted probably with kids or something, doing something else. And then later that night I tried again and it was still down as I was talking with my husband. 

 Speaker 1: (43:32)

And I was like, ah, I just want to look up and see if I can find his phone number or something. And my husband said, well, have you tried those, you know, people find our websites and I was like, this scary, what is it like your credit card information? He’s like, we’ve got credit card protection. I was like, he was like, just do it. Right. The ones that are like threaten you with so much stuff. Yeah. Is your neighbor a convicted felon? You know, like we have their, their jail records there, but we need three 99. And so I did, I paid my three 99 and I found a couple of phone numbers for this half brother of my moms. And I called my mom and I was like, what do you think? Can I give him a call? And she’s like, sure. So I called the first number and this, yeah. Just, just try it. This girl answers. And I asked for, um, for Jack was his name. And, um, and she’s like, Oh, this is, this is Jack’s daughter-in-law um, I’m married to his son. Are you looking for Jack? And I said, Oh yeah. Do you have his phone number? And she’s like, uh, who’s this? And I was like, well, I think we might be family is all I said. And she said, Oh, okay. Well, his mother. And she’s like, okay. She goes and they never answer a call from a number they don’t recognize.  

Speaker 1: (45:03)

And I was like, Oh, good tip. Okay. So sure. I called Jack and yup. It goes to voicemail. And I just say, Hey, you know, I’ve taken a DNA test and it looks like we might be family. I’d love to talk to you about it. And I hung up and you know, my heart’s like going a million miles a minute and I did it. I made the phone call literally less than a minute later. He called me. That’s great. So many people don’t ever call back. So, but like, it was like my, I just barely started to calm down. And then it was like, Whoa. So he gets on the phone and I said, you know, have you, did you recently take a DNA test at ancestry? And he said, Oh yeah. My daughter gave me one for my birthday. And yeah, we got our results. And I was like, yeah, well, here’s the news basically. And I said, I think that you and my mom are, are half siblings. I think, I think you share a mother and he was quiet for a sec. He’s like, let me grab my life. 

 Speaker 1: (46:09)

So then his wife gets on the other lines. Now I’ve got both of them on there and I’m walking them through this information. And we’re talking about years of birth and different things like that. And, and it was wonderful. It was wonderful. They were such good people. And they were like I said, so understanding, um, and just so loving and so welcoming. And within the first month of all of this happening, my mom had met all three of her half said, Oh, that’s so cool. And you know, now they, they text and they live across the state from each other. So they don’t get to see each other very often. But you know, we’ve been over there. They, they threw a big thing still in the same, they’re all in the same area. I mean, even in the same, like state is impressive to me. 

 Speaker 1: (46:55)

Yeah. Same state. So it’s been wonderful. And I tell people, my mom didn’t know she was missing anything because she had such wonderful loving parents in her life. And thankfully like really, she was the Apple of their eye. Like she was everything to them, but this was missing from her and she didn’t know it until we filled it. And it has been beautiful to watch and to see them care for her. And you know, she’s the little sister, believe it or not. Oh, so that’s wow. That’s okay. Yeah. So her oldest brother was our oldest sister was nine when she was born. And, but they didn’t know cause you know, your kids and you only know what you’re told Allie, you didn’t know. So wow. That would have been a more, I can see where that conversation would be a little bit more confusing to get to the bottom of that. Yes. 

 Speaker 4: (47:58)

Huh. 

 Speaker 1: (47:59)

Cool. That’s so cool. I love that story. Yeah. It’s been wonderful. That’s really neat. How lucky for your mom that she has a daughter that knows this stuff so well and or insists that she get into it, right. Yeah. That’s really cool. Um, is there, before we go, is there anything else, um, that you want me to know about what you do and how you do it? 

 Speaker 4: (48:27)

Yeah. 

 Speaker 1: (48:27)

Um, I guess mostly for all the people that you talk to in, and it’s so great to have these conversations, to let people share their stories so that people don’t feel alone. They don’t feel like they’re the only ones going through things like this. Um, but yeah, just, just keep spreading this message of inclusion and that it’s really about mercy and it’s about accepting your ancestor, whoever they are for the choices they made and in turn, then being able to accept yourself because we all make choices that maybe we wish we hadn’t made. And it’s refreshing to think you can come out on the other side, no matter how serious you can always come out on the other side, as long as you are committed to a better outcome. Right. You just pick up and move on. Yeah. That’s so beautiful. Yeah. I love that. 

 Speaker 1: (49:23)

Um, and for people that want to learn more about you or look into your services or find those YouTube videos, what should they be looking up? So our website is your DNA guide.com. And so you can also, that’s also on YouTube as well for those videos. Um, but yeah, on our website, we’ve got a lot of resources. We have a really great blog. And so you can just search in the blog for any topic that you might be curious about there. Um, you can sign up for our newsletter, that’s just once a month and that will kind of bring you any news that’s going on in the industry, as well as, you know, some articles or other little inspiring tidbits that we like to share. Uh, so it’s been, it’s been a really fun journey to just I’d love the, the best moments in my job are the light bulb moments where I feel like somebody says I get it now. 

 Speaker 1: (50:15)

And I, I live for that. So the more moments like that we can create the better. Yeah. Awesome. Thank you so much for your time. Um, thanks for having me and thanks again for always spreading this kind great message. We just need to get more stories out there, right? Yeah, no, I, I believe it, um, with everything in me. So thank you so much. Um, and I, if you could think of anything else, um, like send me a message. Um, yeah. Just let us know when you, when you publish and then we’ll promote your podcast also through our channels. So cool. Thank you so much. This has been so interesting. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye, aye. Content. This keeps happening to me where things like I have, I talked with somebody and I’m kind of speechless. I’m just like, this is interesting. This is interesting, but interesting is not the word I’m actually feeling good more than that. It’s more than that is better than that. Um, but thank you so much for your time and yeah, I’ll be in touch with you about the podcast and um, and I’ll just probably be in touch in general. Thank you so much. Thanks. Take care. Bye bye. Bye.