All Those “K” Names…

Speaker 1: (00:00)

Um, there we go. I’m good. You’re good. I’m good. Okay. Cool. Kimberly, this is so cool. This is Eve Sturgis calling you. Hi. Um, I was, you know, when you contacted me earlier, uh, about the, about the link and I was on a walk, first of all, I’ve never said I couldn’t figure out what was weird about the sentence that I wrote you, but I think I said I’m out walking the baby, like it was adopted. Totally. And like, I was like walking and I was like, something was weird about that. What was it that I, what was odd? That’s what it was. I don’t normally say walking the baby. Um, I didn’t think anything of it seemed normal to me. Okay, cool. Um, and then the other thing that is kind of fun and different about this episode, no matter what it is you are going to talk about, is it, we are going in almost totally blind. 

 Speaker 1: (00:54)

Like, I don’t really know your story. And if you sent me some details, I gotta be honest. I’m not remembering them right now. So I didn’t send you any, I don’t think, I don’t think you did. Um, but I, there was something about, uh, your like availability and enthusiasm that I was like, yes, let’s just like, get on the phone right now. Like sometimes making plans with people is better last minute than planned ahead. Way ahead. You know what I mean? They’re like, isn’t time to cancel, cancel or think about it too much. So I’m super excited. I do have to do one thing. I tried to use my work charger from my laptop and apparently it’s not doing well. So actually I think I’m just going to send my husband to go get it. Okay. Let’s get him. Let’s get him involved. Yeah. He’s the man of few words. Okay. So if he can be the charger guy, that’s cool. 

 Speaker 1: (01:54)

See, actually it’s easy to register them to come here rather than try to text and like, yep. Nope. I, I go through that all the time. Like the Dell charger fit the HP and it charges sometimes I’m not confident. Ah, he looks, um, can you get my charger from the rolling cabinet? That’s downstairs with the two doors. Oh, sorry. This charger. It’s inside the cabinet next to the desk. That’s my work charger. And it doesn’t work so well, it’s for Dell, but I tried rolling cabinet two doors. The one that you’ve been asked, we’ll see this happens. 

 Speaker 1: (02:49)

It’s cool. I’m super flexible. We can make it work no matter what, I’m sure of it. I’m going to make sure I maintain power. Yeah, totally. So, um, okay. Wait. So knowing this, that that’s a dumb sentence. Doesn’t say knowing that I don’t know anything, like starting with the idea that I barely knew anything. Where are you located? That’s just in Kansas. You are in Kansas and what’s it like in Kansas right now? Um, it got really cold today. Oh. Like it was boiling over the weekend and today it is cold and rainy. Oh, how strange. Okay. The high tonight is 49. Oh, that’s really chilly. Yeah. Although I’m okay with it. Yeah. It probably feels like such a relief. Is it, does it, do they think that like the winter has arrived or is it just like a cold front is moving through and you’ll get it in summer. 

 Speaker 1: (03:47)

It’s just a cold front. It’ll pop back up to the eighties next week. Wow. Weird. Okay. Um, and did you grow up there? I did born and raised. And are you still in the town that you were born and raised in? Well, let me rephrase this. I was kind of raised in two towns, mostly Hutchison, but yes I am. Okay. Oh, you know what else I want to talk about before? Cause that’s almost a perfect place to say like, well, why don’t you explain to me growing up? But, um, I would like to talk about horseshoe Lake. 

 Speaker 1: (04:28)

That is, that is something I’m in. Um, can you tell me a little bit? We just had our, we just had our state tournament this weekend. Whoa. And how many, okay. Wait, how long have you been in a horseshoe Lake? Let’s see, I started, I want to say two years ago. And, and what, what, how did that get started? Have you always been a horseshoer? No, no. My son started playing with my stepdad and so I started playing and he started like three years ago. I started playing to be able to spend time with my son and my step dad and then my, my dad. And when I say my dad, I mean my birth certificate father sure. From Emporia every other week to play with our league and then the tournament’s because they don’t have league and Emporio. Oh, okay. So this, so it became a thing of, if it became a way for you to spend time with your son, um, and do all three of you play on the same week, your son, your dad and you, and um, my step dad step.  

Speaker 1: (05:48)

Okay. And how, how, uh, how are you at at horseshoes? Well, I would say fair, but I had a good weekend. I won first place for state in my division this weekend. Kimberly it’s totally awesome. I don’t know how it happened, you know, so you’re telling me that right now, I am talking to the Kansas state champion for horseshoeing. And you might’ve been, I’m sure it’s an incredibly competitive and intense division. There are a lot of, lot of men and women who play incredibly well. This is amazing. I grew up with, I grew up across the street from a park that has horseshoe pits. Is that what they’re called horseshoes or, um, has a huge where she pits. That’s kind of famous, not famous for, but in town, like people know where that is and what that is in, in my little town that I grew up in. And, um, and then my, I like, it’s a, I have like a real clear memory and sort of like a fond association before shooting with my dad, my birth certificate dad and his brothers and my, and my grandfather. Uh, but I had no idea that it could ever be so big that there were leaks and that there would be tournaments. There is a world horseshoe tournament. 

 Speaker 2: (07:09)

Wow. 

 Speaker 1: (07:11)

I won’t go to that, but it exists. Are you going to go to nationals? Does winning in Kansas mean that you go to nationals now? You know, I don’t think there is a nationals of that. People just go state from state to globe. Okay. Somehow I’ve missed it. 

 Speaker 2: (07:28)

I am kind of oblivious sometimes those, so yeah, 

 Speaker 1: (07:32)

I think it just depends on like what you’re focused on. Well, I wasn’t even going to play this past weekend. Talking about Oklahoma has a a hundred mile yard sale thing every summer. And I’ve wanted to go for a long time and this is their hundredth year and they just had it and I was going to do that mile. Wait, it’s their hundredth year of the hundred mile yard sale yard sale. Yeah. Different towns, all kinds of sounds so fun. I love his yard sales and thrifting and finding vintage things. I would, you just really, you just gave me a road trip idea. Oh yeah. They do it every year. I’m going to try again next summer because this summer I decided to stay so I could spend time with my dad. Um, but I’m going to, I’m going to make it one year you to make it maybe, maybe if you and I can hold each other accountable. 

 Speaker 1: (08:34)

Yeah. This is going to be great. Okay. All right. I’m it’s all falling together. Okay. Um, so yes. Okay. So we’ve already even mentioned dads and stepdads and breast certificate dads. Uh, do you, how do you like to tell your story? Like if you were just, do you tell friends or have you told friends, is it something you’re open or do you want me to ask you interview style questions? It’s up to you. I mean, there’s multiple, like I said, I was going to make points, so I made sure I didn’t miss anything. Guess who didn’t do that? I got busy building. Well, I was going to say, you probably are just asking in the glory of being the champion. I’m all over the map. I was building a work bench for the new workstation building myself so that I have a place to set up my cricket and my summation printer and my heat, like a cricket, like crafting like a like, Oh, okay. 

 Speaker 1: (09:35)

Is that something, is that a pastime that you do for fun or is it a, is it a work or fun thing that I’m going to try to turn into a money thing? Cool. Maybe those are the best kind. Yeah. What kind of stuff do you do? Um, well, I’m kind of, I’m a Jack of all trades, but I did t-shirts, uh, stickers. I’m learning how to do tumblers. A sublimation printer does a different type of tee shirt and tumbler and coasters. And I mean, you can do basically anything with a sublimation printer. Um, and I got a tee shirt, heat press. That was everything. Everything’s nice. And even I build, I build things with wood. Like I build tables and stuff. Um, no you’re crying. Whoa. You’re like, not just crafty. You were like, uh, you, you like, you exemplify the original word of the word. I’m very handy. Yeah. I do electricity. I mean myself, my stepdad’s a carpenter and I learned a lot from him in Pinterest. Yeah. Wow. Put those two together and you’ve got really got something. Okay. Um, how about making topics or what? I can do those too. Hey, maybe we should get together and make some things for everything’s relative podcast. That would be fantastic. Let’s talk about that. Let’s talk about it later talking about it right now, but just like put a pin in it. I’ve already written it down for myself. 

 Speaker 1: (11:12)

Uh, but I think that’d be really fun. I agree. Okay, cool. I figure out how to make that work. All right. So you tell me, tell me, okay. Where do you like start from? We’ll start from the beginning. The beginning of Kimberly. So all my life, I have been told that I’m okay. My mom has my brother when she was 16 and my dad and her got married. My dad is three years older than her. Um, and then I guess it was so incredibly painful. She made my dad get a vasectomy and then she decided it’s one and done one and yeah. And then she decided that wasn’t it because she wanted me. So she had him have a reversal. How many, sorry, I’m going to interrupt you. Sorry. Um, how many children do you have? I have four. You have four. Did you, do you ever go through that? 

 Speaker 1: (12:07)

Like when you ha when, well, I’ll just talk about me and you see me, but when I, every, so I have three and every child, um, until this last one, I guess. So I guess it’s only two, but it’s, that’s a lot. Um, when, when they’re born, I’m like, I’m never doing that again. And it’s not, it’s not necessarily from the labor specifically. It’s just from like the whole experience. Like I hate being pregnant. The, I just I’m like, I’m never doing that again. And then there just comes a time where I’m like, Oh, we are really ready. Would love it. I love having children. Let’s have the, um, so I wonder if that’s what happened to your mom. She just like, got to the place where she forgot and the hormones kicked in and she was like, I’m ready. Again. I, it could be who knows what? That woman.  

Speaker 1: (12:56)

Okay. So she had a vasectomy reversed. I mean, she didn’t even cheat. She asked, she asked her husband to do that, and that’s what he does to me. He had it reversed. Um, and so my whole life, I was told that I came, I was wanted so badly that my dad had a reversal to have me. And I was told that I was, I cooked two weeks too long. Um, Oh, only because I, we all know the end of the story or the, yes. We all know the twist. Is that a funny that Kimberly was otherwise you were too late two weeks late. No problem. So that’s the story I’ve been told of like my origins and that’s like, Oh cool. You know, I came from this that’s how much I was wanted. Well, then grow up. My parents got divorced two months before I was born. Um, it was, it was a very rough Rocky thing. Um, and growing up every time my mother got into a sticky situation where it wasn’t safe for my brother and I, um, my dad would come get us and we would go live with him until she was in a place that she could take us back. And so we’d be bumped back and forth. Um, 

 Speaker 3: (14:20)

[inaudible] 

 Speaker 1: (14:22)

So how, I’m sorry. I have more, I’m just going to do, what’s the age difference between you and your brother? Um, my brother and I are four and a half years apart. Okay. Um, and what was that like for you to go to hop back and forth between your, your mom and your dad’s house? Um, well, I think it was probably easier on my brother than it was on me because when he went to dad’s, he didn’t have to be my babysitter. Um, he got to be 

 Speaker 4: (14:52)

A kid. Um, but I loved hanging out with dad. If dad went to go do it, he would ask all of us kids if we wanted to go. Cause I have two step siblings. Um, and the only one who ever said yes was me coming into a carpentry now. Well, that was, that’s an electronic that’s that then my dad taught me how to fish play dark. Yeah. I have a lot of dads that you think I’d get used to that by now. Yeah. So he taught me how to do all this other stuff. So I’m very, I went to golf camp one summer because my dad golfed at that time. That’s really sweet. Um, so we went back and forth and through that, I don’t even know how I heard the rumors, but I had heard rumors that dad wasn’t my dad. Um, and you’re like, okay, whatever. 

 Speaker 4: (15:48)

I just figured that dad’s side of the family. Didn’t like my mom, because their marriage was very Rocky and they were just toxic for each other, I guess. Mmm. And then when I was 12, at that point I was living with my dad and I’d gone to visit my mom and I don’t remember the situation exactly. But I had hurt her somehow. And to hurt me back, she told me that my dad wasn’t my dad. So like emotionally you’d heard her feelings. Oh yeah. Okay. Okay. And so after that visit, I went to my dad and I told him what she had said. And he told me, you know, if I wanted, we could do a DNA test, but it didn’t matter what it said. I was his daughter. Right. So me being the classic over-thinker I am I held on to that all these years because a person who is sure that you were their child, doesn’t say it doesn’t matter what it says. Right. Um, so between that and her actually saying it, it like stuck in my brain. Sure. Of course. So I I’ve been talking about it for years. And then I think it was like six years ago. My stepbrother told me that he actually believed that my dad wasn’t my dad. And he had taken me in because I didn’t have a dad. 

 Speaker 4: (17:18)

And I also knew that my dad didn’t have a whole lot to do with me until I was about three, but I figured that’s. Cause he’s not a baby and a little kid person. Right. We had this Rocky relationship, but yeah. Visitation can be tangled. Okay. Um, so along comes this year, I had been talking to my dad’s half brother about ancestry. Cause he was sending me pictures of my 

 Speaker 1: (17:50)

Like great grandparents and like way down the line on my dad’s side. And we got talking about it and somehow I found out he had done ancestry and I have been trying to convince my brother to do it with me and he just wouldn’t do it. Um, he’s got some thing about putting your da DNA out in the world. Oh, okay. He was military and right, right. So knows what they’re doing with the information. Yeah. So I’m like, okay, well here’s my chance. 

 Speaker 4: (18:21)

So 

 Speaker 1: (18:23)

Black Friday comes along last November and I convinced my brother to buy it for me for my birthday in December. Oh great. Okay. Um, so the test comes in December. I see it. I look at it. I’m like, okay, well I’m not quite ready. And so I set it on a shelf, Oh the test, the test arrives. And you said, I’m not quite ready yet. And I set it on a shelf. And my second to oldest daughter nagged me and nagged me until I took this silly test. And so I took it like, I think the end of January and it came in the beginning of December. 

 Speaker 4: (19:04)

Um,  

Speaker 1: (19:05)

And I, I want to say that test absolutely grossed me out. I have an issue with saliva. I mean, I don’t think you have an issue. I, I, well, yeah. I mean, I just want to validate your disgust, uh, as someone who’s done the 23 meat thing, I had no idea that that is what is expected of you. I was like, wait, what, I’m sorry. How much into the, what I thought I was gonna, I thought I totally expected it to be a Q-tip thing. Yeah. Me too routine. So anyhow, I do the test. She nags me all the way to the post office and I have to text her and tell her that I put it in the box. What, um, what do you think your daughter was so interested in or excited about? She, my kids have known that it has been a question in my mind for a long time and I just wanted, and the reason I did the test is cause I just wanted to get the question out of my head. Right. I didn’t actually expect it to come back the way it did. I thought that it would just get the question out of my head and I could just be done with it. 

 Speaker 4: (20:12)

Mmm. 

 Speaker 1: (20:14)

We all know that’s not how that turned out. Um, right. So it’s becoming a tale as old as time. Yeah. So I’m waiting for the results waiting for the results. And I go to Michael’s craft store with a friend of mine on March 7th and we’re walking around the store, getting an invitation stuff for her wedding and that magical email. 

 Speaker 4: (20:38)

And 

 Speaker 1: (20:40)

I open it up as she’s looking at all kinds of stamps stuff and I’m reading it. I really love that section. Oh, me too. 

 Speaker 2: (20:48)

I’m reading it. And I’m looking for anything that says the last name Fox. Um, and there was absolutely nothing. Like I saw my mom’s family and so I’m still scrolling and then I’m my friend’s like, well, are you okay? I’m like, yeah, I’m fine. I’m fine. We can keep looking. I said, I’m just going to multitask. I keep looking. So I start messaging my uncle and I’m like, okay, well I got my results. This is what they say.  

Speaker 1: (21:14)

Imagine any of these people and you know,  

Speaker 2: (21:17)

I didn’t. And my husband and I were going to my friend’s house that evening for dinner with her and her husband or I guess fiance. Um, and we were drinking.  

Speaker 1: (21:27)

Did your uncle know about this possibility? No.  

Speaker 2: (21:30)

Okay. Him and my dad aren’t close. Okay. Um, and we were, we went over there and ate dinner and we were playing a card game and everything. And the whole time I’m on my phone messaging back and forth with my uncle and I’m holding it together, you know, I’m, I’m in the investigative mode and we leave, I go home, I go to bed. I’m, I’m still just, you know, thinking about it. And the next day I called my dad’s, well, it’s his cousin, but she’s like an aunt to me.  

Speaker 1: (22:06)

Yeah. Yeah. We have those. Yeah. 

 Speaker 2: (22:09)

And I called her because at that point I’m like, well, I, it, it is what it is. This is what it is. And when I called her, cause I needed to know how she thought he would react. That’s when I, yeah. That’s when I finally broke. Um, that’s when there was no more holding it together.  

Speaker 1: (22:32)

Mmm. 

 Speaker 2: (22:32)

That was on March 7th is when I got the results in. And that would have been a Saturday. I called my cousin, my aunt on Sunday and I happened to be going to Emporio for work or that direction, at least on Monday. And I had already planned on stopping to see my dad. And it wasn’t something I wanted to talk to him about over the phone. 

 Speaker 1: (22:56)

Hmm. 

 Speaker 2: (22:58)

Yeah. I went there, I talked to him and 

 Speaker 1: (23:03)

He actually, 

 Speaker 2: (23:04)

I ordered an ancestry kit that day. 

 Speaker 1: (23:06)

Hmm. Well, wait a minute. What is your, what did your aunt predict? Did she have said that he would love me no matter what? 

 Speaker 2: (23:14)

Um, and that there’s no way I can get rid of them. They’re my family. 

 Speaker 1: (23:20)

Oh, okay. Okay. That’s nice. All right. But she, okay. Okay. Yeah, 

 Speaker 2: (23:24)

That, it, it wouldn’t matter to my dad. Um, so I go and talk to him and I tell him, and I’m a mess, absolute mess. And at this point, all I know is what the DNA results have said. I haven’t figured anything out yet. And he tells me  

Speaker 1: (23:43)

Focused on what you’re focused on. It’s not saying  

Speaker 4: (23:46)

Right now. Yes, exactly. So we go to dinner and at one point he’s like, well, when I was a baby, I had a complete blood transfusion. Maybe that did something. I’m trying to think of where I don’t think it works that way, but okay. Um, and then at dinner he tells me that if he had to, if he was a betting person, he would guess it was this red-headed sheriff and Beaver, Oklahoma. I’m like, okay. The parents liked them already. So apparently my, uh, my mom wasn’t and we all knew this. My mom wasn’t incredibly faithful, but dad didn’t have proof. Um, and assumptions. So anyhow, I talked to him, I feel a little bit better cause I’ve talked to him and I start digging. Like there was one night that I stayed up with my friend that was with me when I got the results. And we did like this triangulation chart trying to figure it out and through the mix of figuring everything out. I contacted one of the people in there that said that they were my second cousin. She helped a lot. Um, and I had it narrowed down to a set of brothers. So it’s so often that people come up with like brothers or like this team, this team of men. 

 Speaker 4: (25:06)

Um, and I guess I kinda, I skipped the part here because this is March. I hadn’t spoken to my mother since my birthday in December. Okay. Um, so it is, by the time I had it narrowed down to the two brothers, it was like a week and a half after I got the results. And I’m like driving around town, stocking my mom’s house, trying to make myself stop because it really didn’t want to talk to her, but it was necessary. Um, so I finally, I, and through one of my stalking drives, I had called my dad and I had a, uh, he asked me to leave well, enough alone. I don’t have that. I don’t have that capability. I am incapable of this. Right. So I ended up stopping and I go there and I probably surprised her by just walking in the house. It had been, you know, four and a half months. 

 Speaker 4: (26:08)

And I sit there for a moment, do a little small talk. And then I tell her that, you know, I took the test and that the results say that dad is at my dad and she says, that’s impossible. It’s wrong? I said, no, it’s not. And then I started telling her the names that were on it and all of a sudden she gets real quiet. She covers her eyes and she spits out a name, one of the two brothers. Oh my gosh. So it confirmed for me and the cousin on the ancestry that I’d been working for. And I talked to her quite a bit and her dad is my biological dad’s first cousin. Um, okay. She ended up giving me his phone number because I didn’t, I felt obligated to let them know I exist. Um, and then medical history, of course that’s a given. Um, but I didn’t have any plans past that. Um, can you tell me, can you tell me a little bit more about the feeling of obligation that he should know you exist? 

 Speaker 4: (27:26)

Whale? Here’s another fun snippet. Okay. My oldest, who is, she’ll be 18 in a couple of months, um, the person on her birth certificate, we got together when I was three months pregnant with her. And I did not tell her about who her biological father is. She didn’t know there was somebody else until she was 10. Um, and I just, Kimberly this does get layered quickly. So I walked with that, that guilt and that for 10 years as a pit. Um, and you know, I just feel like everybody should know who they’re connected to. Um, I didn’t intend to have a relationship with him, but I felt like he should know this year with your biological father and he could do whatever he wanted with it. Um, and so, you know, she gave me her phone number and I didn’t want to accidentally reach his wife. 

 Speaker 4: (28:41)

Sure. Um, because if it, if he was going to tell her that was, that was up to him. That was not up to me. Um, and also through all this, I realize he’s 13 years older than my mom. And so, so who knows who’s involved? Yes. So I, yeah, so I, first thing I did was I was on my way to see my dad one weekend. Um, it would’ve been like the 21st of March and I called and rang, rang, and then went to voicemail and I hung up and I, he like, I, I couldn’t breathe. I, yeah, that panic, you feel like, Oh my goodness, what did they actually answer? Right. So he didn’t, I really don’t want this to work. So I ended up sending a text and that says, you know, my name is Kimberly. You used to know my parents. So, and so once upon a time, I’d like to have a conversation with you about my mom and I wait, I wait, I don’t get a response. So about maybe a week later, I was, I don’t think 

 Speaker 1: (30:11)

You could get a text like that and not respond a week. That’s a long time to get a goodbye. I got a text like that. I would be like, I would, that’s so cryptic. Okay. 

 Speaker 4: (30:22)

Probably he knew I’ll get to that. Sorry. Later a week later, I’m like, okay, I’m going to call one more time. I’m going to leave a voicemail. And if he doesn’t contact me back, I have filled my obligation. So I, I call, I leave a voicemail that basically says the same thing as the text. And I leave it the next morning at 8:00 AM. I get a text message from him that says, um, asks if I’m, uh, if I’m available for a phone call. So like, I go back into that. I can’t breathe mode. Right. Um, and I was like, okay. Yeah, yeah, I good. Yeah. Cool. So we talked for probably like an hour maybe. And he said that as soon as he saw my text, he knew exactly what it was about. Oh, sure. 

 Speaker 1: (31:35)

Sure. Of course. Okay. I was imagining that he didn’t know. And so I was putting myself in his shoes as somebody who didn’t know. 

 Speaker 4: (31:43)

So obviously if okay. Yeah. I know exactly what it was about. Um, and I think he was kind of hoping, I, I just wouldn’t go back. Maybe it would go away to see also, I mean, everybody is hoping in these situations, he also immediately deleted the text. I didn’t think about the fact that other people look at their spouses phones. So I don’t ever look at mine. My husband doesn’t look at my phone. I don’t look at his. Um, but yeah, we don’t really, we don’t really, 

 Speaker 1: (32:17)

I guess things could pop up in a visible way, but we don’t, we’re not, we’re not a couple of things. 

 Speaker 4: (32:22)

Yeah. But I mean, they’re, they’re an older couple. Um, and so I think that, like, she probably helps some technology here and there. Sure. Actually also I’ve also been like 

 Speaker 1: (32:33)

Driving or doing something and been like, Hey, can you check, can you check my phone and do this and that? Yeah.  

Speaker 4: (32:41)

Yeah. 

 Speaker 1: (32:45)

Sorry. I have my husband one second. 

 Speaker 4: (32:52)

Smashed it. How is it? Okay. I think we might need to bring her in here. Let me see it. I’ve had this happen before it’s gonna hurt. Okay. Um, 

 Speaker 1: (33:27)

Yeah, let let’s, um, I’m I heard all that and I’m happy to just sit here or get off the phone. Give me one second to look at this. Really. I am in no rush. Like there’s no urgency here. Alright. 

 Speaker 4: (33:56)

Okay. 

 Speaker 1: (33:59)

A nightmare broken toe. I mean, broken or, or heavily bruised toes or Knight are terrible. 

 Speaker 4: (34:07)

Somehow. 

 Speaker 1: (34:10)

How old is she? 

 Speaker 4: (34:11)

She is eight 

 Speaker 1: (34:14)

Youngest. Well, you can tell her if it helps that I dropped a huge bottle of olive oil on my toast once. And, um, and it hurt as an adult. I did that and it, it really did hurt so bad. I don’t know how or why that would help other than to just say that other people drops up on their toes too. And it does hurt. Well, it probably didn’t help any that or dad was talking about drilling a hole. I liked his thinking, but yeah, I would, I would be pretty freaked out. 

 Speaker 4: (35:02)

Um, that one caught me off guard. 

 Speaker 1: (35:07)

Where was I? Oh yeah. I called him. He called me to talk to you for about an hour. And he said he deleted the text immediately. Yes. Um, so I find out that he has been married to the same woman, 45 years, this, this year. Um, they have three daughters all older than me. Um, the youngest is 

 Speaker 4: (35:32)

Year and a half older to me. Okay. Um, and you know, he tells me like what he did for a living. It just tells me about himself and his family. Um, when I asked him about medical stuff, like if there’s any medical issues, his, his response was longevity. Oh, that’s a problem, I guess, I guess, um, quality problems. And as he’s talking to me, he’s very, um, I don’t want to, I don’t know how to explain it. Like, okay. When I get nervous, I make bad jokes. Huh? I, and I’m horrible about it. It was one of the things that my ex husband hated about me, but I couldn’t help it. I do. Yeah, no, I do that too. He did the exact same thing. Oh. Like, um, at one point he, cause I told him I have children at one point and he’s like, well, so tell me about my grandchildren. 

 Speaker 4: (36:40)

And then he goes, I’m sorry, I shouldn’t say that. Right. I mean, it’s just trying to like lighten it up a little and that’s what I do when I’m joking. I’m trying to lighten it up. But it was so weird to hear somebody else do it because nobody else in my family does that. Um, so we have that conversation and he, during the conversation, it kind of sounds like, like, I wasn’t sure if he was going to tell his wife. Yeah. Um, so we finished that conversation and that evening I was talking to my husband and I was like, well, if he tells her, this will tell me what kind of person he is. 

 Speaker 4: (37:26)

Um, and I’d say about, and I was perfectly fine at that point. Like he could have never spoken to me again and I’d have been fine. You feel fine? I was okay. I knew what, what I needed to know. I had fulfilled my obligation. Um, so about a week later, his wife messages me on Facebook messenger and duet she’s hip. Yes. Yes. She’s pretty amazing. So she messages me and tells me that they’re willing to open their Facebook up for a little bit. She doesn’t know how long so that I can see pictures of the family. And I told her, yeah. I told her at that point that, um, I can’t add them to my Facebook. I’m not comfortable with that, that I would make my Facebook public so they could look at mine, but I couldn’t add them to my Facebook. And then I got to talking to her and having, yeah. Holding conversation with her. And next thing I know this same day, the youngest of the three sisters reaches out to me. Cause she got her mission from her parents to reach out to me. Oh, and here here’s a part. This is a part you’ll like all of their names. All three of them, their names starts with K 

 Speaker 1: (38:56)

No. Yup. Come on. Yep. None of them are named Kim. 

 Speaker 4: (39:03)

No. Okay. They actually like the name Kimberly, but they’ve never named one of them. Kimberly. Cause people shorten it. Um, I don’t go by Kim. I go by Kimberly because my mom has always told me that every Kim, she has ever known as been a insert word. Um, and so whenever she’s mad at me, she calls me Kim. 

 Speaker 1: (39:26)

Oh, I go by Kimberly. 

 Speaker 4: (39:32)

So luckily nobody has my name. Um, 

 Speaker 1: (39:35)

Still, I mean, it doesn’t even need to be the K is just yep. That takes effort to do three, to do three Ks 

 Speaker 4: (39:46)

Total. Yeah. Yeah. But my grandma named me, which is interesting. Hmm. It’s just purely coincidental I guess. Or there’s something I’m not told. So anyhow, 

 Speaker 1: (39:59)

I had a one in 26 chance. Yeah, yeah, 

 Speaker 4: (40:02)

Yeah, exactly. Um, so the sisters messaged me and I ended up getting on a group chat with the three sisters, said group chat, turns into a family chat and it’s in the middle of COVID. We have to do all day 

 Speaker 1: (40:19)

Recently. This is 2020. Okay. 

 Speaker 4: (40:23)

Um, yesterday was six months since I got my results. Oh my gosh. Okay. Which I didn’t, I didn’t realize Robin messaged me on Marco polo and told me which I think I would have been. Okay. Not realizing that. Um, because it kind of made me get in my head a little bit. Um, but that’s okay. We got past, so anyhow, it turns into this big family chat and COBIT is going on. So all we have to do is this to each other, which I think covert was kind of a blessing. Yeah. Um, because there was no need to rush meeting each other or anything. We did some zoom calls, um, with everybody. Um, but mostly it was just this family chat. I’m a, I’m an open book. If you ask a question I’m I’m most likely gonna answer it. I apparently don’t have boundaries. 

 Speaker 1: (41:27)

That’s not the same as not having any boundaries. I know what you mean.  

Speaker 4: (41:32)

Um, so we spent, you know, probably let’s see, they messaged me very beginning, April a good month and a half before we met. And how we met was we decided to get a Airbnb at like a CA a cabin, you know? And it started out with everybody, bring in their whole family and mind you, all three of the daughters are married and they have children. So a lot of people, a lot of people and I’m like, um, I slowly whittled it down to like just husbands. And then I whittled it down to just us. I did it slowly. Cause I, I, that was too much for me. Yeah. And that was a lot. I didn’t want to take anybody with me either. I wanted to do it on my own. Um, luckily I had met the youngest daughter the weekend before. Cause we live in the same state. 

 Speaker 4: (42:39)

We live like a half hours from each other and we met in the middle and um, we, I think we went to a park and just talked for probably two hours. However, had I not done that when I pulled up to this cabin, I think I would’ve just drove off. Oh. Because I pull up and I’m sitting there and I made sure to park in the escape, parking spot. Good call. Just in case everybody else. Everybody else was already there. Yeah. Plan. Expect the best plan for the worst. Yeah, exactly. Sure. Um, so I pull up and I’m just sitting there staring at this cabin and they’re met, they messaged me on the messenger and I am not, I haven’t answered. So they ended up sending the daughter out that I had met. Um, and she came out and I started crying because it was just so much, you know, just overwhelmed. But she managed to kind of talk me out of the car and you’re, and you are totally alone. Your husband wasn’t with, you know? Yeah. I I’m, I prefer to do things like that alone. 

 Speaker 4: (43:59)

No, I hear you. I hear you. I hear you. Um, I it’s like he doesn’t understand. I mean, he, he tries to be as comforting as possibly can be sure. But I mean, he didn’t get it. You really can’t unless you’re in this position. Right. Um, so you know, we go, we stay the weekend, everything goes wonderfully and everything has gone wonderfully since this family is amazing. Oh, there is a piece of the story I forgot. Okay. Wait, before you tell me the piece of the story, you forgot. I just, I, you, and you probably said this at the, at the rental, at the Airbnb cabin, it was the three sisters and their spouses. And then also no, just the three sisters and the parents and the parents. Okay. So your biological dad and his wife were there. Okay. Yes. Okay. Okay. Okay. And it went wonderfully. Okay. And then there’s an element you’re going to tell me, you forgot. So here’s the fun element. I forgot. Okay. The end of, okay.  

Speaker 4: (45:11)

My biological father and my dad were friends. He is actually, my biological dad is actually the first cousin to, he was married. His first cousin was married to my dad’s sister. Got us how they met. So what was my first cousins are, I guess, so family, but anyhow. And my dad worked with him for a little, for him for a little while too. So they were friends. My dad was, my parents were married and him and his wife were married. So, you know, I came out of complete and total deception, which that is something I struggle with.  

Speaker 5: (46:01)

Okay. 

 Speaker 4: (46:02)

So I want to ask you about that in a minute, but okay. So anyhow, the weekend goes well. Um, I think we got together. I think we’ve gotten together at least once a month since may. Um, I took my kids with me in June at the end of June, I think. Was it June? Yeah, it was, it was in June. Um, and then we went there for July 4th. My husband went with me that time. Um, and then this, not this past weekend, but the weekend before, um, all of them drove an hour from Hutchison because I was on call for work and couldn’t go further than an hour away cause they live in Oklahoma and luckily right by the border. But so they all drove and we met in Pratt. Was it prep or did they meet anyhow, we met into another town. It was a place that was not here.  

Speaker 4: (47:12)

Um, and did a, kind of like a barbecue thing at a park and September and October birthdays. Um, it sounds really fun. It was a lot of fun and you know, I’ve met, Oh, I have a lot nieces and nephews now and sure. Um, and is everybody, um, are you let’s see it’s everybody comfortable? Yeah. Or like, are they open about like this is auntie Kimberly? Yes. Okay. So, okay. They are all absolutely amazing. Hmm. I’m pretty sure their mom is a Saint and yeah. Sometimes I’d like her to be my mommy too, because she’s just, she’s just so sweet and accepting. And I don’t know how she does it because I don’t know if I could be that accepting. I don’t know if I could look at that person and not just see the pain. 

 Speaker 4: (48:19)

Um, but she does it. Hmm. And do you know, um, their version of events? Did she, she, she did not. She did not know about you until he did not. He didn’t either. Okay. Apparently my mom told him that she was already pregnant. Okay. Um, and when he told his wife, he, she actually contacted my mom and talk to her on the phone, started with messenger and talked to her on the phone and was very cold. Yes, it was right. It was right before she messaged me the first time. Wow. Um, cause she wanted to make sure that stories lined up. No. Okay. And I can respect that. 

 Speaker 4: (49:14)

Respect. My heart kind of goes out to her. Yeah. That’s fair. Um, now mind you through this at the very beginning, when I was driving and had called him the first time and I was driving to go see my dad, my dad ghosted me that weekend. I was supposed to spend the weekend with him and he completely ghosted me. So I drive the two hours important to go see him. I go to my aunt’s house first. I messaged him and he, he said something about how I shouldn’t have traveled because of COVID we weren’t locked down yet. Mind you. Um, and I was like, well, you knew what was coming. And I thought he was joking with me and I wait until about 10 o’clock and he never contacted me again. And so I just turned around, came home. Um, is that something he’s ever done before? Nope. Never. He was not in a good place mentally because of all of this. Right. And he told me he, he messed, he messaged me like a week later and apologize to me and told me that he was just in a really dark place. 

 Speaker 1: (50:32)

You hear that? Speaking of dark place, what does he try to do to her? Why do I feel like he’s still trying to drill a hole, but is there ice? Can we just, can we just do an ice pack One second. Take your time. 

 Speaker 6: (50:58)

[inaudible] okay. I’m here. 

 Speaker 1: (52:34)

Do you think it’s possible for me to switch to my phone? It’s not. Um, I’ll just take the computer with me. It’s fine. Only because this program does not work on phones. Ah, well, it’s a good thing. I tried with the computer person. Yeah. Um, I am going to mute myself as I walk through my crime. Now what’s her name? Ashton? Aspen. Aspen. Oh, like the mountains. Okay. Well yeah, no, I have a, I have an Ottoman, a Lilly, so I couldn’t name her something like Sarah? No, that’s I have a Lilly. Oh, how do you spell it? L I L Y. Oh, okay.  

Speaker 4: (53:26)

You have more else than me? L I L L I E. Oh, that’s cute. I like that. And then, and then, but my brother, his two kids are, are both trees as well. They’re both out there, Aldon and Juniper. So we’re clearly on the same kind of wavelength. Okay. So Stepping outside, Hey, it’s raining as California is California completely burns right now. I don’t watch the news. Oh yeah. That’s okay. I mean, it’s just, what’s happening every year is happening. Well, I’m a social worker, so I don’t like the news because it’s always so sad. And I already deal with that. Here you take a break. Okay. So my dad ghosted me that weekend. Messaged me apologize. Um, and you know, I haven’t admitted that it’s, this has been harder on him than he was letting on. 

Speaker 4: (54:51)

I knew it would be because my dad isn’t like one of those, I’m going to talk about my feelings. I’d rather just push it under the rug. And we’re just like, never going to talk about this again. Right. But I knew he wouldn’t tell me I’m not completely. Right. So I went ahead during the month and a half before I met them, I went ahead and got on Samantha depressants. Okay. So that, because I didn’t want to spiral before I could catch it. Totally. Because you know, I have a family and I kinda need to be available for that. And so I was just saying, it’s so funny. Cause I’m like, obviously you’re a social worker therapist. I mean, 100% to me, I want to be.  

Speaker 4: (55:56)

And I wish that more people would recognize their resource availability like that. Yes. Um, so I had gotten on antidepressants and everything and I, it wasn’t long after I met them for the first time. And I had seen my dad a few times in between all of this. Um, and every time I saw my dad, I felt guilty because I was talking to them as well. But my dad wasn’t talking to me about any of this. Neither of my parents were, and the only ones who were asking me, how I was doing was these new parents. And I’m like, this isn’t, this isn’t right. And so there was one day finally that I went to my mom because my dad was there because when my dad comes to town for horseshoes, he stays the weekend and he stays at my mom’s house with my mom and my stepdad. It’s very weird dynamics. I’m sure. Well, they didn’t get along when I was a kid, they wouldn’t tell us an adult.  

Speaker 4: (57:07)

Yeah. Like right now that my mom and my dad are on vacation together in Colorado, they left today. My stepdad is at home. Um, my dad is married and has been for almost 35 years for 30 years, I guess. So. Yeah. I mean, sure. They’re going to see my brother. Yeah, sure. That’s weird. Like it’s weird on the surface level, but it’s not weird if you start to accept the complexities of human relationship. Like my ex husband and I, my three oldest are with him and him and I get along beautifully. We’re really good friends. We were just horrible. Married people. Yeah. I think that, that, I think, I think that happens. I know that happens. I don’t think that happens. I know that happens. Yeah. So anyhow, my dad was there when we can. And I’m like, you know what? I’m just going to bite the bullet here. And I go over there and both of my parents are sitting on the couch. I wait for my stepdad to leave the room because I don’t want to drag him into any more than he has to be core guy. And I started talking to the both of them  

Speaker 6: (58:21)

And my mother sat there and looked  

Speaker 4: (58:24)

100% straight ahead. Did not say a word. Um, but I told them that, you know, nobody, neither of my parents have asked me how I am. I said, I find that wrong. And I explained to them how I am. And I told them I’m not okay. I’m never going to be okay. And where everybody says, nothing has changed. No nothing has changed. Everything has changed was like, I am no longer just like Andrew, which is my brother. Um, you know, I’m different now. I’m different. Now. I was like, and the fact that nobody’s talking to me does not help me.  

Speaker 4: (59:12)

Um, so this opened up conversation for my dad. I guess he was waiting for me to come to him, which 100% sounds like him. Okay. All right. Yeah. So I’ve, I’ve talked to my dad. Like I went and had breakfast with him this morning cause he was here for the state tournament and then he left with my mom today. I go to Colorado and you know, I found out little bits and pieces of information. Like I read my baby book recently again. And my mom had wrote a letter when I was three to me. And it talked a lot about my birth and how my dad was with me or wasn’t. And so I’m like, I feel like I need to ask questions. Most people don’t get that opportunity because somebody passing away for me, everybody’s alive and yeah, I hear you so same boat. I bit the bullet this morning and I talked to him about it and I find out that when my mom this morning, this morning, this morning, Tuesday.  

Speaker 4: (01:00:24)

Okay. You’re like, Holy smokes, Kimberly. Okay. Just keep asking questions as they come because you know, there’s gonna come a point. I don’t have that opportunity. Yeah, absolutely. Um, and my dad will talk to me. My mother will not, but my dad will nor do I really want to talk to her. Um, and he told me that when I was born, he really didn’t think I was his. Um, but my mom insisted that I was in, shoved it down his throat so much that at a certain point, he’s just like, okay. And I was cute to me. I was cute and adorable. Um, but so, you know, he just accepted me and that part where my stepbrother said that, um, I didn’t have a dad. So my dad took me in, well, I guess a few weeks ago I had gone to Emporia and my dad left a little bit early to go fishing. And so I talked to my step mom and to see how he really is, you know? And I was telling her what my stepbrother told me. And she’s like, well, he probably overheard conversation. And I lived there and I’m driving home. And I’m like, this was a big enough thing that there were conversations. Right? Like it was just openly talked about in the home. Yeah. So it just made me really think who, what, and nobody wanted to tell me, I could understand my dad not telling me because that meant he might lose me.  

Speaker 4: (01:02:06)

I’m not as forgiving with my mom, but there was a whole lot of there’s a whole lot of other otherness to go with that. Somebody we would call a piece of work. Yes, 

Speaker 6: (01:02:22)

Yes.  

Speaker 4: (01:02:24)

Um, cause I mean, we already, weren’t talking, this is what made me talk to her. Um, and I love my mom. I don’t condemn her for what took place 37 years ago. I do condemn her for using it to hurt me when it was 12. And it turned out to be true. I just struggle with that. I do struggle with her lack of acceptance of it now and kind of just acting like I shouldn’t, my grandmother told me that this guy is no different than a sperm donor. And then tried to say yeah, somewhere in there. Um, I said that my dad is always going to be my dad. And she’s like, well for how long and that right there for me hit where it hurt because one of my biggest fears is losing my dad. Right. Which is why I talked to him about everything. I’m like, I put up a post on Facebook about me getting first place in horseshoes. Oh, I can’t even tell you that part yet. Cause there’s a part of missed I haven’t talked about yet.  

Speaker 6: (01:03:39)

Yeah.  

Speaker 4: (01:03:42)

Okay. So, um, after I came out of the woodwork, if I hadn’t done 23 and me, it would have led me directly to them because they had done, they had done it. Right. But I did ancestry, but one of the daughters had not done anything. So she decided to do ancestry. So when she gets her results back, um, as four daughters get on zoom to look at them together and they’re looking at it, they look at it and they see this, this person marked as a second cousin and they’re like, who’s this? And I had noticed this person and I had noticed that he was connected to the two people that I am. And it was an aunt from one side of the family or a great aunt from one side of the family and a great aunt from the other side of the family, which is how I narrowed it down to the two brothers. Right. Um, and, but I, that’s not what I was looking for. So I didn’t look into it. Right. There’s a brother. It was his kid.  

Speaker 4: (01:04:57)

No, he is. He just turned 46. And there were a lot of conversations about whether or not to reach out to him and myself and my biological dad, father, I haven’t decided what to call him. Um, Jesus said to leave it be, if he’s not looking, leave him alone because it was his son’s DNA. Not, and because I know how much it can rock your world, but my daughters so badly wanted to reach out to him. And somewhere along the line they won. And then at the, like when they messaged him, I got drug into the loop at the very last second. And I’m like, what’s happening here?  

Speaker 4: (01:05:53)

And I’ll go into his house. He actually lives in the same town as one of the sisters. Of course. I mean, it’s weird all the time. Yeah. He works at a state all the time. So anyhow, they reach out to him and I guess he has always known that he didn’t know who his father was and his mom had given him some other name and he was trying to look up this person. And for him, this is, he found his, he found his path. It’s a joyous occasion. Yeah. The barbecue thing that we did the weekend for last, his birthday is one of the ones that was celebrated. And the parents gave him 46 years worth of birthday cards. Oh. And individual message into each one. Um, like it wasn’t in my gift and it was overwhelming for me. I know. I’m like, that’s really overwhelming. Um, but he, you know, he’s just elated. So back to now I can go back to where I was. Um, I posted the thing on Facebook and he put a post up there that said, that’s my sister. And then put like a little picture that says like number one, the first night, first I tried to hide it. And then I realized that only hides it from me. Right.  

Speaker 4: (01:07:27)

So I didn’t know what to do because my mom’s family, my mom and my grandma are really worried about this family finding out. Oh, okay. Um, my dad, I wasn’t sure where he stood. So I talked to my dad about it at breakfast and I said, okay, this is what’s happened. This is where I’m at. What do I do? He’s like, well, do you not? He’s like, well it depends. Or do you want to have a relationship with him? I was like, well, I talked to him all the time and he’s like, okay, then what’s your problem. I said, mom and grandma, I said, and then there’s your family. He’s like my family to just think it’s a really good friend of yours or it doesn’t right. They don’t, they don’t care. They’re just, they’re not judgemental like that. They don’t care. And he’s like, you know what? Don’t worry about your mom’s family. You’re comfortable. You do. You and your dad, your dad is so cool. I love my dad. My dad’s amazing. Um, he’s really great. There is one very, very important person I have not talked about yet. Okay. My brother. Yeah. Um, Kim and I, yes, he is. And has always been my rock. Um, and you know, obviously he’s like the first person I called. Um, and he has done his best,  

Speaker 7: (01:08:55)

Just comforting, 

 Speaker 4: (01:08:56)

But he, you know, he’s like, well, me, I think I would have just left it alone. I’m like, you don’t know that until you’re there and say, wait, you’re not in it. Well, and you know, here I have ended up with this just incredibly nice welcoming family. Um, my sister in law tells me that she thinks that my brother’s a little jealous of that. Oh yeah. Totally makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. And I think he’s worried about being replaced, but everybody, everybody knows he’s not replaceable. Right. I mean, that’s my big brother. He half raised me already. You’ve just given us just like the, you know, the tip of the iceberg. But if you, he, you clearly both went through a childhood together that probably bring you either bring you together or split you apart permanently. So if you’re together, you must be together tight. Yes. And you know, this is the first thing that had to do with our family that just, I am experiencing and right. That is such an absolute foreign feeling.  

Speaker 4: (01:10:17)

Um, Oh yeah. Yeah. And of course he doesn’t know, he doesn’t really know what to say to me, but he does his best. Um, and he has to do a lot of navigating between my mom and me so interesting. My brother does too. I mean, he just has to help and doesn’t have to help, but he he’s. Yeah. He’s stuck in an unplanned or like unwittingly ambassadorship that, um, but yeah, I’m sure it’s confusing. We’re, he’s lucky. He’s in Colorado. I’m here with her and mine is the opposite. My brother is near my parents. And so that’s why it’s also, how’d you make that happen?  

Speaker 4: (01:11:05)

I got out of there. I got out of there a long time ago, so they’re nearby. So they’re close. So it’s more precarious is more precarious for him. And yet he also, I think doesn’t even have the expanse of empathy for any, cause it’s not his story. It’s not his situation. Yeah. Well like they, the new family has talked about meeting my brother and we had my daughter’s graduation party cause she graduated a year. She had a baby at 16 and she ended up graduating a year early and she started college. This what last month? Um, so we have a graduation party.  

Speaker 4: (01:11:46)

I have a 17 year old, so I wanted to be like, so I wanted to connect about that later, but great. She is, she is, um, and two of my sisters came to the party. Um, my mom and my grandma kinda got disinvited. Um, so there was nobody from my maternal side there. Um, my dad couldn’t make it. Um, but my brother was here, my brother and my sister in law. So he met both of them. Um, and he has them on Facebook now and they’ll comment on stuff here and there. Um, and I was really, really worried about that. Like I didn’t want, I was supposed to take, I was getting ready to take a shower. Cause I was, of course we’re going behind because that’s what I do. And he showed up at the door and I’m like, nevermind.  

Speaker 4: (01:12:41)

But they ended up, they were sitting in the living room and my brother is a very blunt person. Um, like I say, I have no back. He really has no boundaries and a filter. Um, he’s also ex-military. And so, uh, you can imagine that filter and again, asking some of the tough questions, like, you know, how did they feel about it? And they are in a more similar position, Andrew and them, they are than I am with any of them. And so I said, I’m gonna leave you guys won’t talk. And I went outside because I felt like they would be able to speak more openly without me standing there. It’s totally possible. Yeah. That’s actually, that’s really open minded or the other one open-hearted astute. I just want everybody to get along. Um, I want the important people in my life to get along. Um, the agreement I made with my dad is that I would never put him and my biological dad in the same room. That’s an agreement we made. Oh wow. Okay. I can understand.  

Speaker 4: (01:14:00)

He asked for, okay, because you know, he’s today. He said what it was was a 36 year old, a 36 year old knife in his back. Yeah, because he had considered this individual, his friend. Yeah. No, it’s I’m I am not questioning your dance. And I requested, um, and when I contacted my wife, my biological dad for the first time he told me he would completely understand if my dad wanted to come down there and shoot him, shoot him. And he apologized to me multiple times. Um, but my dad has also told me that this guy he’s good people. Right. He said, despite this they’re good people. Well, it sounds like your dad and you, and a lot of these people, um, are like really able to understand the way that that nothing is, is all or nothing. Oh yeah. Black or white. And they do, you can hold, you can hold all sorts of things at the same time. Well, my grandson’s birthday is coming up and my daughter invited my dad and the new parents and I’m like, Oh, you can’t do that on them.  

Speaker 4: (01:15:26)

So I contacted my, I call her my bonus mom. Now I contacted her and I told her what the deal was. And she said, well, you just let us know if your dad’s going to be there. We won’t go. If he isn’t going to be able to make it, we’ll try to make it. She’s like, whatever makes you comfortable. Um, like they’re just very, very welcoming. He is struggling with telling his family. He stole a few of his family members. Um, but I don’t think he told any of his friends. They have a very tight knit community, especially with their church.  

Speaker 4: (01:16:11)

And she asked me once when I went down there, if it bothered me that he hadn’t told all these people and it doesn’t bother me at all, I think that that’s something he should do on his own time. It does bother his daughter, two of his daughters, at least, because as long as he’s not telling people, they have to keep the secret and think about secrets. Yeah. And I can understand, not wanting to keep that cause they’re excited. Right. The brother, it’s not a big deal because he came before his wife. I didn’t know. Um, and so that one’s not so much a big deal that’s explained to me. Right. I did. However, the other day, cause I had talked to one of my sisters about it and I, I had told her how I felt after, um, I told my daughter the truth and just having that weight lifted off of me. 

 Speaker 4: (01:17:21)

Um, even though it was incredibly painful to tell her, um, I, she and I, I was telling her all this and she’s like, you need to tell my dad that. But of course she says, dad, um, I, it took me a few weeks, but you don’t have Marco polo is yeah. We talk on Marco polo all the time too. And we have this family messenger group. Um, but so the other day I was driving in, I was thinking about it and I went ahead and messaged them and explained it all to him. And I told him, I was like, I hope I’m not overstepping. Um, I was like, but you know, she asked me to share this with you. So I am and you know, deal with it, what you will. And he didn’t respond to it, but he did have his wife listened to it. Um, which kind of, I guess kind of surprised her. And so she messaged me or messaged me and told me, um, 

 Speaker 8: (01:18:31)

Okay, 

 Speaker 4: (01:18:31)

That it opened up a door of conversation about it and that she appreciated me reaching out. Okay. I’m sorry. I’m so sorry. You needed I’m all over the map. No, no, no, no, no. It’s okay. But your, so your daughter said, you need to tell, like, who did you tell what? So I was talking to their daughter about me telling my daughter the truth about her origins and about how it felt and how as a mom, as a mother parents today, like, I’m going to tell you the truth of this and got it. Okay. Yeah. And then that daughter, who is your sister said, would you please tell our biological dad that yes. Got it about the relief and the truth and that you are all experiencing these things in different ways. Okay. Got it. Um, so I did that. He didn’t respond. He still hasn’t responded, which is fine. I didn’t, I didn’t require a response. Um, but his wife did and I was really hoping I wasn’t stepping on toes. So, uh, it opened the car with the door for conversation for them. I don’t know where they went with it, but with that helped. Fantastic. Um, and another door that got opened because of this whole thing is I hadn’t 

 Speaker 2: (01:20:08)

Let my daughter meet her biological dad yet. I wanted her to wait until she was 18. But because this situation arose and I had done it, I couldn’t be a hypocrite. Hmm. And so I asked her if she wanted to meet him and she said, yes, I said, okay, I’m willing to do this, but you have to talk to your dad first because she had never held a conversation with her dad about her biological dad. Right. Like, Oh no. She knew, he knew, they just didn’t talk about it. It makes sense on it. The next day they went to dinner and she talked to him. And, and how old was she at this time? 17. Yup. Okay. Yup. This was a couple months ago, three months ago, four months ago, something like that. And so I went ahead and got, and got ahold of him. Now, mind you, he had been in prison for eight years. 

 Speaker 2: (01:21:10)

So there was an eight year gap. I really just didn’t have to worry about it. And it’s not that he’s a bad person. He just made bad choices. Um, and she said that she talked, she said I worked in the prison system for 10 years. Um, so I have probably a different perspective. Right. I was a CRA I was a corrections counselor. Um, and I double checked with her dad to make sure that she had actually talked to him and then I’ve reached out to, well, I call him her donor. Right. And I arranged it and we met in the park and they met for the first time. And for her it’s, it’s different because she has known for seven years. Right. And she has connected with her siblings. Cause I did allow her to connect with her siblings. Cause they’re all here in town. Um, and their, their lifestyle is different than ours and it’s not really something she can respect all that much. So the siblings are a struggle for her. And so she is a bit disgruntled with the fact of how lucky I got. But I explained to her, I was like, you know, if I was pissed because she didn’t get a warm, welcoming, extra family. 

 Speaker 2: (01:22:41)

And I explained to her, I said, you know, if these people had of been like what you’re facing, I wouldn’t have anything to do with them. Um, I said, I am because they are these amazing people. Um, so all of us opened that door for her. And then now I have this brother, which I struggle with the brother part because I have something to compare him against. I have my brother, your brother, and with me being as close to my brother as I am, um, I have a hard time with the new half-brother. 

 Speaker 9: (01:23:18)

The sisters 

 Speaker 2: (01:23:19)

I’ll have a problem with it all. Cause I don’t have a sister. Right. Um, and it’s right. I like specific, you have a very specific idea in a high standard of what a relationship with a brother looks like. Yeah. Or feels like. Yes. Um, but he’s very understanding of that relationship. And I like one day I told him I was grateful for that. And he said, well, I wouldn’t be a big brother of I wasn’t understanding. Um, and my biological dad gave my son a yeah. Okay. So he has like quite a bit of land, but he also has an amazing amount of junk cars. Oh, my son loves, loves cars. So somewhere in this mix of this one visit where I took my son there with me, he gave my son a 1948 Dodge truck. Oh my God. That had been sitting in a field for who knows how long. And he even put it on trailer and drove it here. Oh my gosh. And signed the title over to him and my ex husband and my son I’ve been working on it. They got it running. Um, man, it’s so cool. He gave him tires to put on it. So they put the new tires on it. And my son is just over the moon for this. I mean, um, and  

Speaker 9: (01:24:47)

Yeah, they’re just, 

 Speaker 2: (01:24:49)

And they just gave it to him. And with my new brother, he’s been working in another state and he came home for like two weeks. Cause that contract ended, they have drove him back to this other state, drove there with a trailer and pulled one of his cart and brought one of his cars back for him and my new half-brother for him. If that’s a foreign concept to him as well, being that nice one second drug. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That, um, one of my, um, half sisters also listens to your podcast. Um, and she really enjoys it too. They have all been listening to like they’re on the different Facebook groups that they can be on and they’ve read books to try to understand our perspective. That’s so nice. 

 Speaker 2: (01:25:50)

Like I just don’t even know what to do with these people because I don’t think I’ve met nice person. And like before we met for the first time, um, I messaged the new parents and I told them like, basically everything bad I had ever done in my life. Oh wow. Just so I didn’t ever have to worry about not saying something I I’m done with it. Yeah. Why powerful. That’s such a powerful idea image of just as like long list. Yeah. And they told me that it didn’t matter everything’s in the past. Um, and that people are human, which I completely agree with. But yeah. Everybody has these things that they feel shameful about, but I, I am 100% just that we’ll see. 

 Speaker 2: (01:26:36)

Yeah. I had to hold too many in my life. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. I just can’t anymore. My, uh, my dad’s sister is the one that got me looking at different, um, support groups on Facebook, which I didn’t even know existed. Um, and then she’s also the one that turned me on to podcasts. Cause I listen to podcasts a lot when I drive. Cause I visit foster kids all over the state of Kansas. Um, so I drive a lot and you know, it’s just opened up a whole new world. And for me I’ve been looking for one, for an anything that is somewhat similar to my story. I find bits and pieces, but most of the time, like they’re people are older when they find out. Um, and somebody in the equation has passed away. Yeah. Not all the players are in the game or somebody doesn’t have a tight relationship with their birth certificate. 

 Speaker 2: (01:27:40)

I do. Yeah. Um, like today my dad was talking to me and he said, he used the phrase to find out that he’s your daddy. And I said, he’s not my daddy. Right. Right. And he says, you’re to find out he’s your father. He said, I’m not, I’m not splitting hairs. Right. On words. Like, but to me that’s a big thing. Right. Let’s get yeah. Yeah. Rhetoric is really important in this whole experience for people. Yeah. So I still don’t, I still don’t know what to call him. I call him nothing. Actually, when I’m talking to his daughters, I say your dad. Right. Um, if I’m in the same place as him, I will wait until he looks at me to speak. Um, and they all know that. I just don’t know what to call him at the get together the other day. I don’t know why, but I was naming off people for some reason. I don’t know why, but I said the, the, the one who must not be named, because I just don’t know what a column just don’t know yet. Um, and I, I, I think at 1.1 time, I called him, um, daddy, Bob, because his last name went really well with, it starts with the D and um, his wife just latched onto them, but, well, it’s not gonna stick well, um, yeah. These situations make all, make all the words important. 

 Speaker 2: (01:29:21)

They really do. And like his daughters have talked about like, what about when my other kids graduate? I’m going to have to put people together. And I’m like, I haven’t thought this far ahead. Right. It’s like, I wasn’t even planning on having a relationship with you guys. Right, right. But here we are. So I’m just taking it one step at a time. I didn’t have a plan. Um, I mean really who does right. I was about to say like, maybe that’s the best way to go in it because they go into it because, because then you don’t, if you don’t have expectations, I remember now where I was going with the, with the Facebook group thing. So I actually wanted to be like, uh, one of the DNA angels angel. Yeah. And so I had gotten into a few and I was trying to figure out how to do it because like when somebody passes away, I go into help mode because that’s how I handle it. 

 Speaker 2: (01:30:25)

Yeah. Yeah. I handle it by helping others. That’s how I agreed. Um, and so I desperately want to help other people because helping them is also going to help me. Um, and it’s like a win-win and so I got put into, I don’t, I don’t know if it’s, if I can say what it is. Oh, you’re asking me you’re in it as well. I think we’re in the same. We got we’re in one of the same groups. Yeah. At least. Yeah. And it’s to help the mental health initiative, um, which I really liked that idea. And the more, the more I think about the, the search angels, as much as I, 100% with love to do that, I, um, one, I worked 60 hours a week. I have four, I have four kids and a grand baby that lives with me and my husband. 

 Speaker 2: (01:31:26)

And I’m also kind of trying to start to get this little craft bags. Um, and so I’m like, maybe let’s stick to the smell health because I’m actually wanting to go back to school in the fall because I want to be a therapist. Um, and my associate’s is in criminal justice. So I mean, it’s not really gonna help me in that area, but that’s okay. I mean, I will help you from a credits, you know, logistics perspective. But, um, so the group, the, the spot I got put in, I think is perfect. And when they put me in it, I was like, I’m like looking at it and all these really smart people on there. And I’m like, Oh, 

 Speaker 1: (01:32:13)

I don’t know if I’m supposed to be here. 

 Speaker 2: (01:32:17)

The idea of being able to help other people, which is really what I wanted to do your podcast is because if I was looking and I couldn’t find it, somebody else’s too, and maybe my story will help them, um, a hundred percent because listening to the podcast and reading everybody’s stories and being able to talk to people who are like you and realizing you’re not crazy, and it’s okay to have these emotions, it has been so helpful to me, so helpful. Um, and you know, I, of course I wouldn’t have been able to get through this without my family. I feel very horrible for my children because, you know, there have been moments when their mom has just, you know, tucked in her room and just laid in bed and cried. Right. Yeah. Because you know, like my, uh, my maiden name, which is Fox, I’m a red head. Um, that was a huge thing to me. I loved my name. Yeah. And I struggled with it now because it wasn’t supposed to be mine. Right. Um, I struggled with the fact that my brother that I am so insanely close with is actually my half brother. And that’s just like, it doesn’t change anything. Like nothing’s different between us, but like one night he was here to visit. I think it was during my daughter’s graduation party or something. And he, we were joking about genetics or something, and we were joking and I mean, 

 Speaker 1: (01:34:02)

It does, we did start it. 

 Speaker 2: (01:34:06)

And I probably started it. But somewhere in there, he slipped in a joke about half sibling waterworks instantly. Oh, just don’t expect it. Yep. And he felt so bad. And I told him, I said, and I had already told my husband that it will always be too soon to joke about it. I’m the only one who is joke about it as me. 

 Speaker 1: (01:34:32)

I talk about mine all the time. You’re right. It’s like, yeah. And he felt so bad 

 Speaker 2: (01:34:40)

And he probably won’t make that mistake again. And, you know, it’s just, they hit, it hits you at just random times. Like when my stepmom told me that, you know, my brother, my step brother probably overheard conversations and I’m sitting here going about it that next day was a bad day. Um, I spent a lot of that day card. Um, but I also spent a lot of that day talking to my new half-brother because he was, he’s the only person that is like, close to my situation. Right. Yeah. So, yeah. Um, even though it’s not the same, but that did help. And, you know, I try to stay busy yesterday. I ripped out, I get that feeling about you. Yeah. Yesterday I ripped, I demoed my basement so I could start rebuilding today. Um, uh, there’s just so many aspects to everything I’ve been so worried about not hurting people’s feelings, especially like that, especially my dad. 

 Speaker 2: (01:35:52)

Yeah, sure. Um, I, the people I’m most worried about actually are my dad and my new bonus mom, because I feel like they’re the people who were jilted. Right. That makes sense to me. And I don’t want them to be uncomfortable. And my dad told me that I can’t make him uncomfortable. That if I’m happy, he’s happy. Um, no, we all know that, no, he’s not secretly wishing it all to go away. Um, generous thing to say, but he loves me and I know he does. Right. Um, and the relationship between my mom and I is, uh, not amazing. Ah, the only reason we talk is because of my brother and my stepdad and my dad, all right. Three people didn’t drink better than none. 

 Speaker 5: (01:36:50)

Yeah. 

 Speaker 2: (01:36:51)

Um, and it’s, it’s more of a, if she’ll just let me love her from a distance will be fun. Um, and you know, everybody has their cross to bear and their thing that they have to heal from. And I have a whole lot of healing to do still. I mean, what yesterday was six months. So we finished, you were like a newborn baby in this whole lie. Yes. But yet it feels like it’s been for ever. And I think part of that’s COVID colon COVID stoplight. Um, but actually I think that that time was, it was perfectly timed for us is that gave us a chance to get to know each other. Yeah. It’s like, it, it, it, it gave you parameters or boundaries to, to get space whether you wanted it or not. Yes. And I definitely needed that. Um, I don’t really know where you go from here other than just, you know, keep on ticking along. 

 Speaker 2: (01:37:58)

And eventually I’m told eventually it gets easier. Um, but I have noticed that most of the time the people saying this, somebody in their equation has passed away. Um, and, but I have, you know, talked to numerous, just amazing people who have been through some sort of trial or AAA tribulation with this. I have talked with one of the other people who was on your podcast and, uh, he was screening me for a group and I saw his name and I’m like, Hmm, that’s not an overly common name anymore. And I actually had not listened to like maybe, but two or three males on the podcast, because I was looking for a situation like mine. 

 Speaker 2: (01:38:48)

So I’m looking at it. And his profile picture is a Sheltie. I have a Sheltie. So I was like, you wouldn’t have happened to have been on those podcasts, would you? And he’s like, yeah. I was like, I listened to it. And I felt like I was talking to a celebrity. I told everybody I’m like, and he’s incredibly nice. And we can talk about her. Shelties yep. He’s the nicest, the nicest man. Yeah. He’s fantastic. Um, and so, I mean, this whole new world has opened up that I have absolutely no idea what to do with, um, other than just mow through and survive it. But at the same time, like I enjoy at the same time, sorry for what I feel like I’ve kind of lost. 

 Speaker 2: (01:39:48)

Not that I’ve not that I’ve lost my dad. I haven’t. And I never, ever will. Um, because my dad is my dad. That’s the person that hugged me was little and kissed my boobs and taught me so many things. Um, but there is the, you know, the identity issue. And now I have this worry that if I do something wrong, I might lose him. Whereas like my brother, that’s his dad, but that’s just, you, me getting in my own head is not something that’s actually going to happen, but you can’t help, but think it, um, and but now I have this whole other family here and there’s, I don’t come from a close knit family and they are very close knit. Right. And so it’s something I have to learn to navigate. I have talked to them every single day since April. Wow. That’s a lot talk every morning they get on and they say, everybody says, good morning. And so it’s kinda like what they’re doing. Um, my, uh, his mom is still alive. She is 95 and in a nursing home. And I’m trying to decide, so longevity, he was warning you about, 

 Speaker 4: (01:41:09)

Yes, it is. 

 Speaker 2: (01:41:12)

I am trying to decide whether or not I want to meet her. Um, I don’t know if she is all timers or dementia. She has memory issues. And so, I mean, she’s not going to remember me anyways. She’s probably going to think I’m one of her old students, but I’m trying to decide whether or not I want to meet her. Right. And what that would mean for you? Yeah, my grandmother, my dad’s mom just passed away last December the day before my birthday. Um, and she was everybody called it. She was grandma lovey that obviously wasn’t her actual name, but that’s what, that’s all of his grandkids color. And she was amazing. And I do have another, my mom’s mom was still alive, but now I have this other grandparent and I’m trying to decide whether or not I want to meet her. And if I’ll regret it, if I don’t. Hmm. I guess that’s always kind of the threat or the shadow or something about these things. It’s like, what will you regret if you don’t do it? 

 Speaker 4: (01:42:15)

Yeah. 

 Speaker 2: (01:42:18)

And he has two sisters that were adopted, um, interesting. There was a lot of adoption in this family. Um, like my two cousins from my dad’s sister and their dad was actually adopted. So they went from being blood related to me to like adopted related. Right. I don’t really know how you described that. Um, and I have told them all my dad’s family, just in case somebody from this other side tells them I didn’t want them to get blindsided. And I did let my dad know that I told them and he told me that I could tell whoever I wanted. It was my story. Gosh, he says all the right things. My dad’s pretty great, which is so sweet. Cause he, we all know that like he’s probably not feeling all those things necessarily, but yeah, he’s so supportive and encouraging, so, so sweet. Um, and you know, these three sisters that I have in anything, my new half-brother they’re, they’re fantastic. Um, I’m like, wow, like Andrew and I are close in a different way. I can’t explain it like him. And I went through, I was like, no one, no one can recreate the experiences of your, the history you have, which created each relationship you have now. Right. Um, but this having sisters things is kinda cool. Uh [inaudible] yeah. They and helped with my daughter’s 

 Speaker 4: (01:43:52)

Graduation party and I would not have survived that thing without them. 

 Speaker 2: (01:43:56)

Cool. Yeah. 

 Speaker 4: (01:43:57)

We all know how to cook. I’m not domestic at all. They made these beautiful fruit trays, like it was amazing what they did and I’m running around and doing, who knows what 

 Speaker 2: (01:44:13)

Hm. 

 Speaker 4: (01:44:15)

They made it happen. Um, and it, the sister thing was really gonna cool that, yeah, that sounds really cool. I actually had a long think about that today. About, about sisters and what that means and what, what I would want and what are my options. What are my options? See when I was looking for him, like when I had it narrowed down to the two brothers, I guess my uncle has two sons and then he had the three daughters, but I wasn’t, they weren’t my goal. So I didn’t really look into them. But when they found out about me, boy, did I get stopped right there talking to her, talking to him, I’d say this or that. And they’d go, Oh, we know  

Speaker 2: (01:45:10)

Is 

 Speaker 4: (01:45:10)

A hundred percent something I would say, because when we figured everything out with the half-brother us, four girls spent like four hours on zoom together researching until we figured out who he was. Yeah. I mean, just, just wait right now. When you said like, we us, for us, for girls, like I just felt jealousy and like admiration and like longing and, um, like sensing the connection it’s different, but it was an easy connection now. They are all very, um, they’re religious, but not like crazy religious. Um, I think, I think the family stems from, and I could possibly get this wrong, but I think it’s Mormons. They’re not like full blown Mormon anymore, but that’s where the family line stems from. Um, not that I really know what that even means 

 Speaker 4: (01:46:15)

From religious, like church wise. That is not even funny. I don’t like to go to church. I think it’s, I think so many people are hypocritical that it just doesn’t make my heart sing. So yeah. I mean, I can understand why you would maybe have some personal feelings or experiences with hypocrisy in that regard. So I, that aspect of things I worry about because they say all the time, like we’ll pray for you and sure. Yep, yep, yep, yep. They don’t hear me say it very often because I’m the type of person that like, I don’t pray real often. And it’s like, um, when you have a relative that the only time you ever go to them or talk to them is if, when you need something, I don’t want to pray. 

 Speaker 4: (01:47:09)

So I don’t pray real often because I don’t want to be that person and explain it to them. And they all thought I was, they probably all thought I was absolutely crazy. And I did pray for one of them one time, because they had an issue that I felt was worthy. And I told them, I was like, I did pray for you as like, but I gave my thanks for everything. I made it really worth it. I was like, but I don’t pray for myself. I’m odd that way. So it it’s, it’s been a roller coaster is probably going to continue to be enrolled. Um, I mean, I still have my maternal side of the family that I have to deal with. I don’t even know what to do there. Um, because I don’t, like I said, I’m done with secrets. I don’t want to be a secret and Facebook comment, I left it good for you. 

 Speaker 4: (01:48:09)

God said to do what I wanted. And I would rather not hurt my new half-brothers feelings than try to keep my mom’s secret. Right. So great. So there you go. We’ll see what happens. Yeah. Just posted definitely will. My kids are the older two, have a little bit harder time. Cause I mean, they’re almost 17 and 18. And so, you know, there’s new family pops out of the woodwork and right. My oldest is doing pretty good with one of the, one of my sisters. Um, because she’ll like the first time we went down there, my daughter, my oldest didn’t go with me with the other three kids. And my ex husband drove her halfway and my sister met her, met them in, Oh, autumn had never met her. And autumn are in the vehicle with strangers. Right. Drove the rest of the way. And like when they crossed over from the Kansas to the Oklahoma line, they started singing the Oklahoma state song. And Autumn’s like, what is going on? 

 Speaker 4: (01:49:30)

You know, they were raised on a farm. And so my niece who is six, I don’t know how the topic came up, but she’s talking about slaughtering pigs. And it was talking about slaughtering animals, like slaughtering, they’re singing songs, we’re city people, as much as you recall in the city they’re farmers. And so funny, that’s normal. But my, my sister has like kept autumn on messenger and Facebook. That’s nice. Yeah. Exer and talks to her about school. So she’s trying to build a relationship with her, which I think is fantastic. My next, my next youngest is a not real social. So if they were to messenger, I don’t know if she would even respond. She’s an amazing person, but she’s just never social. And my son is on a group chat with me and the donor parents. Um, huh. I ha I just excellent. Excellent. I gave him my secret. So at home I call them the donor really hard not to say that I probably, 

 Speaker 7: (01:51:03)

It was the easiest one. 

 Speaker 4: (01:51:04)

Wait for me to say it this whole time at home. No judgment here. No judgment. So that’s whole thing. Just kind of spiraled for me because my only intention was to notify him of my existence. Right. Yeah. Wow. You got so much more than you asked for. Um, and at that point, like when his wife messaged me, I was like, I’m just going to roll with the punches. We’ll see where it goes. Yeah. And I am, I know how fortunate I am. Um, I have read so many stories where people are not as fortunate. Yeah. Um, I find myself fortunate in a lot of ways and then unfortunate and others, um, because I do have everybody alive and I do have all these things I have to navigate. Um, and it brings a lot of guilt because, you know, I don’t want to hurt anybody’s feelings who is still here to fill them right now that I won’t be to die. Please let to be die. But I opened up old wounds with my parents that I didn’t know were there, um, and a bit of a mess, but I’m slowly figuring it out. 

 Speaker 4: (01:52:28)

And, and you didn’t create the problem. I mean, you know, it’s like, you, you know this, but you didn’t create the problem with opening up the wounds with the parents. The wounds got opens, but they had created some. Yeah, exactly. Although, Oh, and the one thing I have never like anybody, um, my brother and I, like, we would go somewhere and people thought we were dating. We’ve looked on that different. And my bonus mom sent me a picture of him from when he was about my age and a friend of mine put them on a side by side. Yeah. Holy cow twins. I found who I look like. Right. Um, and that was the weirdest thing. Sure. Yeah. I’ve just never really know red hair still isn’t there. Um, there is red in the family, but he doesn’t have right here. Um, and I am like red hair, red hair, so that wasn’t there, but the face, the nose, the bone structure, it was just unreal. 

 Speaker 4: (01:53:41)

And, but then like the other day I was sitting on my porch and, um, I was looking at my hands, cause my hand, my hand hurts from throwing horseshoes and I ended up being a champion. Well, yeah, I guess, um, I was looking at my hands and I’ve always looked at my dad’s hands cause he has a, well, I call him Flinstone hands, um, short, just stubby hands with their homes. And um, I was looking at my hands and as my brain went to how I have dad’s hands and then like it remembered, uh, right. And I just had this instant sorrow cause they couldn’t possibly be dad’s hands. Right. And then I thought about my brother, my brother has dad’s hands and even moves them his fingers the same way. Oh well. Um, but like the other day on our group chat, my bitterness mom asked me, ask everybody what tow on their foot is the longest toe.  

Speaker 4: (01:54:56)

And for me, it’s my second toe. And for all the sisters is their second toe. And for him, it’s his second toe for her to, for my bonus moments or first stuff. Cause I guess that’s genetic. Yep. Um, and Oh, and my, my new half-brothers his second toe also. So, but like my new houses are their giants. They get that from their mom’s side of the family. Okay. Because I’m the shortest of course nothing has changed her. I’m also still the baby. Um, the oldest is no longer the oldest, she became a middle child. Right. The baby of a family became a middle child in the middle list is the middle list of the middle. Right. She’s just, she just secured her location as the middle. Yeah. And one day I’m going to make t-shirts for all of us that have something funny along those lines. 

 Speaker 4: (01:56:00)

So cool. I love that. I did make my half brother a shirt for his birthday that said, um, what picture, why am I drawing a blank? The shirt says, um, promoted to big brother established 20, 20. That’s really special. Yeah. I love all that. I love those, those jokes. Yeah. And he like, I’ve talked to him and he kind of had a similar upbringing to like what I had. And so he has his filter on Hyler also like, you know, every now and then I’m going backward slip out of my mouth. I’m not a big, bad word person. I’m not, but they do call it. Right. But like when I’m saying yeah, whatever on them, I try really hard to keep that filter on and he’s doing the same thing. That’s funny with each other. We don’t have to. Right. So you got, yeah. It’s you ha you to have like your own secret connection. 

 Speaker 4: (01:57:05)

I was able to talk to him about the birthday cards and I’m like, so however woman was that. Whoa. And what kind of stuff was in there? Cool. You guys are like siblings in experience. And I asked him one time, I was like, so have you decided what you’re going to call him? And he’s like, no, I was wondering the same thing. He’s like, what do you think? I’m like, I don’t know yet. And so we came to the agreement of the other one, figures it out. We’ll let the other one know. Right. It just posted. We still don’t know, keep a brainstorm list going. Yeah. Yeah. Um, so it’s, it’s like in my little story, there’s three different MPS. Um, and I am in a very unique position where I am the MPE and I’ve been the parent of one. Right. So I think it makes it to where it’s easier for me to understand all sides maybe. Yeah. Um, because I’ve kind of, well, not all sides, but a lot of sides. 

 Speaker 1: (01:58:13)

No, I, yeah, no, I actually like, I really actually want to talk to you about the other one. Um, and other time, not right now, but yeah. I want to pick your brain about that a little bit. 

 Speaker 4: (01:58:24)

Definitely 

 Speaker 1: (01:58:25)

The perspective that I, um, I actually think I understand it wholly, but I think that people need to talk about it more.  

Speaker 4: (01:58:32)

Yeah. They should. Um, like I feel like for like my new book bonus mom, I feel like there should be a subgroup and things for like her. Yeah. Um, and I know that she’s been looking for something like that. Um, because she’s trying so hard to understand so much, but she also needs an outlet as well. Yep. You know, a person can only be so understanding, but they have to have somebody. Right. Um, she did say that I helped them get their garage clean. Oh well, cause that’s what they did the days he told her, what you really need is a project. I, I know it’d be really funny if we found, if we did a survey of what NPS have begun since this determination probably find so many, like bird houses are made and it’s the big four branches at the beginning. Yeah. See. And I had never crocheted really, 

 Speaker 4: (01:59:42)

So. Yeah. Yup. Yup. I understand that. Uh, Kimberly, this is so great. I am so thrilled. We got to spend some time together tonight and I’m like, and, and I get the feeling we’re going to talk some more, cause I have more questions for you and definitely more, more to connect about and thank you so much for sharing your different, different, um, that you’re coming from different perspectives and that you also, you know, I mean, I think everybody almost, I mean, I can’t think of anybody off the top of my head that didn’t, but you, you came to this, you’ve come to your situation with a lot of empathy for people and a lot of understanding of the complexities of the human condition. And I appreciate that. And I, I think it’s really important that we share that stuff and talk about it. 

 Speaker 4: (02:00:30)

I haven’t said that. I should say, I almost said a whole lot about my biological dad, like about him himself. Um, he is really nice and good person. Um, and I’ve finally gotten comfortable with him hugging me. Um, it’s not awkward. Now if I ask a question, he answers it, but he’s got a sense of humor like mine. And he is a, he is a good person who made a mistake. Not that I’m the mistake. And he said that, right? No, I mean, you just said it right there. It’s like, that’s, that’s the truth of the matter is, is that most people are very good people and that all people make mistakes  

Speaker 7: (02:01:24)

And if  

Speaker 4: (02:01:27)

The world or society or could, or, or our culture could broaden their minds about the understanding of that, this might not be such a problem. Exactly. 

 Speaker 1: (02:01:41)

I agree with that. Cool. Um, okay. Kimberly, let’s go. Let’s get off the phone. Attend to Aspen’s toe. I think maybe she’s maybe asleep by now, but just, you know, screaming for a while. Although a good to the drill sitting on the table, um, running scream. That’s so funny, but I will be in touch with you and this is going to go up really fast. So it might be up next Friday. Cause, um, cause it was that good. That’s how I feel about it. I already know. Um, but, and I’ll be in touch with you and if anything comes up, please like reach out to me. And then we’ll also talk about tote bags and then we’ll also talk about another episode and this has just been really fun. Thank you so much for staying up so late. Oh, no problem. And have fun have fun out there in Kansas. Oh, have you ever been now? I have a question. Don’t laugh at me, but it’s the Oklahoma state song. The Oklahoma song from the musical is, I didn’t know, actually I assumed it was. And then I was like, that would be just, I didn’t know.  

Speaker 1: (02:03:02)

It’s been coming up a lot in the past, like four days. My husband and I are just blown away by how much Oklahoma, the musical has come up in our conversation and we’re just like, it’s everywhere. I can’t wait to tell him this. Great. Great, great. Great. Thank you so much, Kimberly. All right. Thank you. You too. I’ll talk to you soon. 

Speaker 10: (02:03:26)

Hi, [inaudible].