The Eyes Are a Giveaway
Speaker 1: (00:00)
Knowing in our canyons. Oh really? Oh, that sounds, sounds so nice. So nice.
Speaker 2: (00:09)
Beautiful. I like the cooler, but I’m not ready for this though yet. So
Speaker 1: (00:13)
yeah, snow it. Snow is its own animal, but, uh, but I am ready for cooler days in LA for sure. I bet. How’s your baby? Um, she’s good at it. She’s really good. She’s, um, yeah, she, I’m like, I’ve got to say, I don’t, I don’t even know. She’s, you know, like seven week old baby. So she’s, uh, sleeping and eating and crying and that’s about it, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. We’re just starting, I think the whole family is starting to finally settle into kind of a routine and get the feeling for how things are gonna go for a little while. Oh, right. Yeah. But we’re, we’re in. We’re so grateful. She’s a pretty easy baby. Well, good. I’m glad to hear it. So tell me, um, we can just dive right in if you want or we can talk some more, but you, your story is a little bit unique because it includes like birth certificate discussion. Yes. Yeah. So we can, we can just dive right in. I’m gonna tell ya, tell me, tell me what’s going on. And I may interrupt you. I’m sorry, but I have five questions. Um, but, uh, yeah, otherwise I’m here to listen. Okay, perfect.
Speaker 2: (01:36)
Um, well when I, I kind of tell you like how I grew up.
Speaker 1: (01:44)
Okay. All right.
Speaker 2: (01:46)
So my mom, um, had me when she was very young, she had me when she was 17 and I was her second child. She had my older brother right before she turned 16. Wow. So, yeah, you know, kind of a lot going on. And she, my grandmother, um, took custody of my brother because my mom was so young and you know, kinda said like, Hey, you’re not going to be able to do this type thing. You know, my mom was still very involved and his father was actively involved in his life and he and my mom kinda continued, you know, on and off for quite awhile. And then my mom met the man that raised me and he was not ready to take on somebody else’s child. So at that point, my grandmother legally adopted him, like took full custody of my brother and, um, my mom found out she was pregnant with me.
Speaker 1: (02:49)
[inaudible] how old was the, was that man, just out of curiosity?
Speaker 2: (02:55)
The man that I believed was my father, he was much older than her. He was about six years older than her, so she got pregnant with me when she was six. Well 16, seven, let’s see. Yeah, she got pregnant with me when she was 16 had me when she was 17. So he was in his twenties at this point. And um, you know, so she found out she was pregnant with me and my older brother’s dad, you know, isn’t my child, she said no, you know, it’s, it’s his child. Like she was young, naive. I think she genuinely, you know, honestly didn’t know at that point how close they had been and you know, kind of what the, so she, you know, stayed with this man that she believed cause my father and went on to get married three years later, had two more children and they, you know, they ended up getting divorced when I was a teenager and she went on and had one more child.
Speaker 2: (03:54)
So I had four siblings total. Two I believed were full siblings and then two half. And you know, kind of through my whole life, I honestly, I never really knew where I fit in. And what I mean by that is that, you know, I, I constantly looked in the mirror and I didn’t see that I looked like anybody, like my older brother and I looked a lot alike. Like I saw that for sure because we both have very unique eyes. We have yellow, green eyes. Like, that’s the first thing that people always say about us and you know, so I always was like, how do I have these eyes yet my full siblings have like these deep blue eyes, you know, and I have thick hair, they have thin hair, you know, I’m, I’m much curvier than the girl that I thought was my sister.
Speaker 2: (04:50)
Like you know, my full sister. And so, you know, just kind of all these things that I always ask these questions and my mom just always said, you know, you favor my side of the family. But I never saw that either. And you know, sadly I grew up in a house full of addiction and you know, a lot of, a lot of stuff there. But the man that I believed was my father, he and I never, like, we always butted heads. We’d never going to have that. I never fit. Like I could never fit into the box, if that makes sense. Like, you know, here I was trying so hard to fit into this box that I didn’t fit into. No matter how hard I tried. And, you know, I was just always more outspoken. I was, you know, I just had a, a mind of, you know, I always just had a mind of my own, I guess.
Speaker 1: (05:44)
So I always had these ideas. And you felt like you wanted, you wanted to fit into the box, you know, I think he could have, you know, I think I just wanted his approval,
Speaker 2: (05:58)
you know what I mean? Like I, I never got that approval that I feel like I thought my whole life and you know, he and I just constantly butted heads, butted heads. And when my mom and him got divorced, I left with my mom and my two siblings stayed with him. And you know, that that caused even more strive please. You know, me and him continued to have issues. And
Speaker 1: (06:27)
how old were you at the time?
Speaker 2: (06:29)
Um, I was 15 at the time and then when I was 17, I got pregnant. And um, that cause even more issues with, between him and I because basically it was, you know, you’re, you’re going to be like your mom type thing. You know, you’re young, you’re pregnant. You’re,
Speaker 1: (06:51)
that’s so interesting. Cause I thought I had hoped when you first said that, that he would have maybe understood, had empathy for the situation because he had been so close to it. No, no.
Speaker 2: (07:02)
Okay. Well, you know, and that was exactly, that was, you know, I mean, you would hope so. And unfortunately that, that continued through the years.
Speaker 1: (07:09)
[inaudible]
Speaker 2: (07:10)
and he and I always just had this very turbulent relationship butted heads. It unfortunately fed into my relationship with my siblings. Like a lot of now after going to counseling and stuff, I see it with a lot of triangulating relationships because they have unhealed trauma of their own. Right. Right. And so, um, when I wa, you know, fast forward, um, 2012, I went to go get my driver’s license renewed and I could not find my birth certificate everywhere. So I go to vital records and I get a copy of my birth certificate and you know, I didn’t even look at it. They’re like, put me on below. I get to the DMV. Yes.
Speaker 1: (08:01)
Right. Yeah.
Speaker 2: (08:03)
So I’m sitting there at the DMV. I like pull it out while I’m waiting for my number and there’s no, it just has my mom’s name on it. And I was like, that’s weird. So I get my driver’s license, I call my mom and
Speaker 1: (08:20)
did it. Sorry, did it say unknown or anything? Or just was blend. It didn’t know even, huh. I didn’t even know you could do that even though that was like, I was a little bit surprised.
Speaker 2: (08:35)
So, you know, I called my mom and I said, Hey, I just got a copy of my birth certificate. This is a little bit weird. Why is my dad’s not listed? And she said, well, we fixed it. And I said, you fixed it. What do you mean? And she said, you know, which I kind of knew the situation a little bit, but like when I was born there was questions about, you know, basically like the man who raised me was like, Hey, am I really the dad type thing? And but she, she said that when after they got married, they went in fix my birth, should have stayed and had him added. And so I just kind of shrugged it off. Like maybe they give me the wrong copy, right. Like they give me the amended copy.
Speaker 1: (09:23)
Right, right. You know, I put it in my space. Right?
Speaker 2: (09:27)
Yes. You know, so I put it in my space and I honestly just kind of shrugged it off and you know, as the years go on and I continue to have all of these different, you know, issues, everything with the man that raised me. And in 2016 ironically, after a very big fight with him, I called my mom and I was like, you know, can’t you just tell me that? Like, you know, maybe we, we butt heads so much because he’s not my dad.
Speaker 1: (10:03)
And
Speaker 2: (10:04)
you know, I didn’t, I didn’t mean it in like, you know, I, I met, no disrespect, I met no anything by it. It was just, I genuinely could never understand why we couldn’t connect and why, you know what I mean?
Speaker 1: (10:18)
Like, I just felt like
Speaker 2: (10:20)
I was treated very different than my siblings with him between, you know, I wasn’t invited on a certain vacation or, you know, just random things that really hurt my feelings. And I’m, I’m not saying I was the perfect child and I made things easy on him by all means, but I was the child. Right,
Speaker 1: (10:41)
right, right. Yeah. I mean you don’t have to defend to explain it. Yeah.
Speaker 2: (10:46)
Not my job to facilitate the relationship and I know this now, but then it really hurt me, you know, over and over again. So, you know, she laughed and she was like, no, there’s no way.
Speaker 1: (11:04)
Again, only interesting. Only interesting. Cause we may already know the end of this story, but yeah,
Speaker 2: (11:09)
exactly. Well that’s good though. No, we laugh about it because it’s, you know, I mean I was actually on the something, so, um, so in 2018, um, you know, everybody starts doing all the deeds. Well, I’m guessing people were doing them long before that, but it kind of blew up on social media. Right.
Speaker 1: (11:29)
It’s like, Hey, look what I did. Right. So you know, my husband and I are like, Hey, this will be fun. Let’s jump on this bandwagon, you know? Sure.
Speaker 2: (11:41)
So we got our tests and we did them. I got my results six weeks later, you know, no big surprises about my ethnicity. Like it’s 100% European, you know, I’ve scanned really led eyes like it fits. So I honestly glance, but then I think once or twice and then I didn’t do anything else with the app. Like I didn’t know that there was like a messaging feature on there. I didn’t, I knew there was the relative feature. Like I went in and glanced at the relatives, but I didn’t see any names that I knew. So I was like, okay, no big deal. So Steve, you’re not looking for it if you’re just not expecting it. I just, yeah, I don’t see, sometimes I was right in front of your face. [inaudible] well, and that’s what’s so funny is I was just like, okay, I have no idea who any of these people are.
Speaker 2: (12:33)
But it didn’t shock me just because like when it came to the man that raised me, we never knew any extended family outside of like our immediate cousins and stuff. And you know, I mean, I knew a lot of my mom’s family, but I, you know, I still didn’t see any names or anything that jumped out at me. Right. And so I, uh, I ended up getting a new phone and I didn’t even download the 23 and me app at the, you know, at the end of 2018. I was like, Oh, I’ll download it later. And, uh, on January 3rd of 2019, my husband and I went to a comedy show January this year. Yeah. You know, he’s talking about his 23 and me results and you know, just funny stuff and we’re laughing about it and we get in the car when we leave. And I was like, Oh, I keep getting emails from 23 and me that I have new relative matches, I should really check that out.
Speaker 2: (13:34)
You know, I didn’t even really know what it meant. Yeah. And so, so we get home and you know, we get into bed and I download the app and I log in and um, you know, I’m trying to figure it out because I hadn’t really taken a lot of time and I was like, Oh, here’s the relatives. I click on it and I have a first cousin match and I see it. And I just kinda like stopped because I immediately recognize the last name. [inaudible] it’s my older brother’s last name. Right. And I just sat there and I was like, huh, that’s a coincidence. Like, you know, my first thought was, Oh wait. Right. I was just like, huh. And so I like turned my phone to my husband and I’m like, do you recognize that name? And he goes, yeah, that’s last name. And I was like, I was like, it’s saying this person is my cousin. And we’re both like, huh. And so I screenshot it and I text my brother. I’m just hoping he’s awake because it’s almost midnight. Yeah. And I texted my brother and I’m like, Hey, I’m like, really weird thing. I just matched with this that has your last name. And I sent this screenshot and he goes, Hey,
Speaker 1: (14:57)
I know her, that’s my cousin. Yeah. And I said, I said, well, Facebook the best. That’s my cousin.
Speaker 2: (15:06)
And he goes, Oh my hell, like in big letters like, and he goes, you know what the scenes. And I was like, you know, I just sat there for a second like kind of I think just like everything, like almost went like a movie reel in my head of like all these revenue things in my life. Like I don’t know her but I, I, I just sat there and I thought of all these things that I had like asked questions about or, you know what I mean? Just random things. And
Speaker 1: (15:38)
I was like, how many forgettable moments that become
Speaker 2: (15:41)
crystal clear? Like, yeah, exactly. You know. And I said, we send me a picture of your dad because I hadn’t seen him since I was much younger. And so he sends me a picture and like my hands were like shaking at this point. Like, you know, me and my husband are just sitting now, we’ve got like the lights on, we’re sitting here and my hands are shaking. And I opened that pitcher and I think like both of us, just like our jaws, like wow. Because it was, I mean, everything, my lips, my cheekbones, my smile, my like rounder face, like just everything. And I was just like, Whoa. Yeah. And my husband goes, that’s your dad.
Speaker 1: (16:29)
That’s like,
Speaker 2: (16:31)
you know, and I’m just kinda like [inaudible]
Speaker 1: (16:33)
and your block, I guess your brother just didn’t had never thought of it or hadn’t seen, hadn’t, wasn’t close enough to,
Speaker 2: (16:47)
yeah. Like we, so here’s the thing, like once we start talking, he goes, this all makes sense.
Speaker 1: (16:54)
[inaudible]
Speaker 2: (16:56)
you know, you start kind of putting it together of like, you know, he and I looked like twins when we were little, like, yeah. Identical. Oh wow. And you know, we’re only 15 months apart. And so it’s like, we’re not, you know, and so, you know, at this point it’s like 1230 and I’m like, I have to call my mom. Like, I can’t wait until the morning. Oh wow. Huh. So I, yeah, I was just like, I have to add. So I, I sent her a text and I said, Hey, are you awake? And she called me. Right. You know, she called me right back and she was like, are you okay? What’s up man? And so I kind of go through everything.
Speaker 1: (17:39)
He goes, he goes,
Speaker 2: (17:39)
what? And I, I’m like, hang on, I’m going to send you a picture of this. I want you to look at it on your phone. And she says, so she, I think first she was shocked and then she laughed and she goes, you know, well, DNA could be wrong.
Speaker 1: (17:59)
[inaudible]
Speaker 2: (18:01)
and I missed like the DNA. I don’t, I don’t know how DNA can be wrong. Like, and so then
Speaker 1: (18:09)
even if it was wrong, it would be such an amazing coincidence if like it was wrong and it identified this other family.
Speaker 2: (18:20)
And so she goes, well, I hate to break it to you, but this, this isn’t correct. And she said, because we did a DNA test when you were a baby. And so then I’m like, Whoa, that’s new information. Like, I remember you telling me that he questioned, but you know, so she proceeds to tell me that it was actually my, his parents. So my, you know, I still consider it my grandparents of course, but they, they were suspicious that he wasn’t my father based off of what I looked like, that they hadn’t been together for so too long. So on the down-low, my mom’s mom, my mom, me, and then my alleged father, his parents, they all went and took me and got me a DNA test that supposedly came back and said I was his child. Um, this was a 1980 so I don’t know what DNA testing was at that point.
Speaker 2: (19:26)
Um, you know, I, I don’t know the specifics there, but you know, that’s what she tells me. And I was just like, well, this is really suspicious. Like I’m looking at this picture of this man that I look like, like I’m telling you, you know? And she says, yes, well, you know, she’s like, it’s just, it’s not possible. And I’m sure she was just in shock at this point. And so we hang up the phone and, you know, my husband has to go to bed, he’s got to be up for work in the morning. And I’m just like, really? And you know, my mind is just like, Whoa. And so, you know, my, you know, my kids are all night owls and so start talking about with my kids and then we start digging out photo albums. Like, look,
Speaker 1: (20:11)
can you get me as a kid? How different I look
Speaker 2: (20:16)
my siblings? Like it’s just, I mean stand out, you know, I’m there with the, the dark hair, the led eyes, like it’s just very obvious. And so, you know, the night my mom called me back actually about an hour later and she’s like, she’s like, I’m just tripping out.
Speaker 1: (20:39)
He, yeah.
Speaker 2: (20:40)
You know, she’s like, I don’t know how this could happen. I don’t know. I, I don’t think this is true. And you know, she always maintained a very good cordial relationship with my brother’s father, despite my grandmother having, um, custody. Um, her and his dad always just talked and you know, they stayed in touch all these years. And so she said, you know, I actually talked to him today and she said, I’m going to call him in the morning. And I said, well, I’m sure Jason will want to call him. You know, my brother. Yeah. Give him the heads up. And so, you know, we hang up and the next morning, you know, I’m getting, I start getting all these messages because my brother is very excited for a couple of reasons. Number one, you know, he kind of always felt like the, um, I don’t know if I can say this, so bleep it out if I can’t. He kinda felt like the bastard child. Um, you know, he, he didn’t ha, you know, the whole situation with my grandma and my mom and them. [inaudible] didn’t want to raise him, you know, had no full siblings, you know, just kind of this whole thing. So he’s just excited.
Speaker 2: (22:02)
Oh my, you know, it makes sense. And he’s so happy and we just, you know, and so, you know, the next day we’re just talking and I said, okay, well to settle this for everybody before you know, it kind of explodes. I’m an order, we’ll do like a sibling DNA test, you know, it’ll be me, my brother will do my mom’s CMA as well because that makes it more accurate. So I get online, order the kit, do all of that. And then my, I was contacted by somebody else in the family that, um, basically told me that I shouldn’t like open this door. Ah, okay. Know that I’m, I’m opening a door that I shouldn’t open and I’m going to, you know, I should keep this on the down low. It’s nobody’s business. It’s, you know, like I stopped right there and like I called my husband after and I was like, you know, first my first emotion was I was angry and I was angry.
Speaker 2: (23:06)
I know because I was upset that it’s like my truth that I should get to share how I want like, but other people are trying to, I don’t know, I felt like I was raised that way a lot. Like you keep stuff under cover, right? Like let’s just sweep it under the rug type thing. Like, so, you know, I actually contacted my, I had been going to counseling for awhile at this point anyways because of my issues with the man that raised me, me, you know, and just my all stuff. Oh. I actually texted my counselor and kind of gave her the rundown of what was going on and she said, you know, it’s your decision. Like you know, your choices, you can, you can say what you need to say in a respectful way that’s not shaming anybody or you know, all of these things. And so she just said, remember like this is you, this is your story. You don’t have to do what anybody else wants you to do. Yeah. Oh yeah, yeah. You know that I, I understand that perspective for the fact that it was different times in the seventies and eighties right. Like women were shamed a lot more for, you know, having, you know, multiple partners. Like it’s not like my mother was out sleeping with everybody at once. It was two people in a very short amount of time. And you know,
Speaker 1: (24:28)
yeah. About like, Oh no, I just thought type of thing. Like, I think that was,
Speaker 2: (24:37)
I was going to make her look bad in a certain light or something. Right.
Speaker 1: (24:43)
Never my intention. Right. People would say things or people are, yeah, yeah, I know how people do it. People talk. I think that’s so, I think people, people, a lot of people on the podcast talk about like, which, what era it was. And I still, I’m not sure that we’re that much more progressive now really, honestly. But I agree 100%. We haven’t made much progress. Continue,
Speaker 2: (25:10)
you know, all of this is kind of going on and then I start getting messages on Facebook because my brother’s excited. He’s talking to people. Um, some background on that is that I knew a lot of my brother’s family, like his uncles and because me and my brother were always really close to right now growing up in the same house, I would go and hang out with him.
Speaker 1: (25:34)
Yeah, that makes sense.
Speaker 2: (25:36)
A lot of our uncles are our age [inaudible] and so, right, right, right. Yeah. You know? And so we were always close like, so I started getting messages and they’re like, Hey, we just want you to know we love you, support you, we’ve always raised you like in our family, like your little sister type thing. And you know. So I felt so welcomed because then everybody starts reaching out to me that I didn’t even know. Yeah. And so sweet. And so we, so fast forward to Sunday, like we had gotten the DNA test. We did, we went up to, my mom’s all met together, did it. I shipped it out on Monday morning. And then my brother called me on Monday morning and he said, Hey, my dad wants to talk to you, are you ready for that? And I was just like, I don’t know. What do I say? What if it’s weird? Like,
Speaker 1: (26:31)
you know, I just panic
Speaker 2: (26:34)
and I was like, you can give him my number. I said, you know, tell him to call me in a couple of hours. Like I need to kind of get my mind. And I think my whole underlying thing, there was majority of my interactions with the man that raised me were always so tense. And I always felt like I had to be on guard, I guess. Like I could never let my walls sound because no matter how hard I tried, I wasn’t successful, you know, in, I never got what I wanted out of the relationship I guess. Like I never got the praise or you know, any of those things that I wanted so badly. And so, you know, I kind of waited like on pins and needles. Like what if he doesn’t call? Like what if he doesn’t want to talk to me or, yeah. You know, I kind of start like building it up in my head like it’s going to be a negative experience.
Speaker 2: (27:27)
And I got a phone call and I answered and the weird, like the sense of calm just kind of went through my whole body. Like I heard his voice and it was just so, he’s just like McKell and I just like, I want to cry because I, I felt so instantly like connected to somebody that I didn’t even know, like, Oh my gosh. And it was just like, how, how does that work? Do you know what I mean? Like, yeah, I’ve met this man a handful of times in my life with a child and I can talk to him on the phone. And it was just, it was, I was still worried about like, awkward pauses or, you know what I mean? The idea of it is awkward, undeniably. And it wasn’t though, like it was just, it just flowed. And it was, you know, he asked me, you know, just about me.
Speaker 2: (28:27)
And he was like, are you okay? Like, how do you feel about this? Like, you know, and then he was very honest with me and he told me, he said, you know, we were young and he said, when your mother found out she was pregnant, I asked if you were mine. And you know, he says, I, I truly believe that. She didn’t know it was such a small window. And um, you know, then he just proceeded to tell me about like his wife and then about, you know, I have eight other siblings from him. Oh my gosh. And, and this is, this is the crazy thing. So my dad has 10 children total. And so we range in age from my older brother’s 40 and then it goes all the way down to us having a seven year old brother. Oh wow. Isn’t that crazy? Yeah. So, you know, he’s, he’s telling me about everybody and he’s asking my kids and he’s asking about my husband and you know, I just, it was such a genuine conversation and it just like when we hung up, I felt so, like my heart felt so full because I, I had always like wanted that.
Speaker 1: (29:42)
Yeah. So I was thinking was like finally you finally got to cut the conversation you wanted or that, or the relationship.
Speaker 2: (29:49)
Exactly. And that was our first conversation, you know, and we talked for an hour and it was just, it just was fine. It wasn’t awkward. It wasn’t tense. I wasn’t worrying about, you know, like being reprimanded or something for, you know, and so, um,
Speaker 1: (30:10)
it sounds exhausting. The other kinds of conversations.
Speaker 2: (30:13)
Yeah, it really was a bit, you know, I mean it’s still makes me sad and so to go back to the band that raised me at this point, he doesn’t know what’s going on because we wanted to wait until I had the DNA.
Speaker 1: (30:25)
Right. That makes sense. That makes sense to me.
Speaker 2: (30:29)
You know, in the same sense, like I have not had a consistent relationship with him for many, many years. Like at this point when this all went down in January, I had not talked to him for months
Speaker 1: (30:42)
and he wasn’t even married. He hadn’t been married to your mother for so long and forgot it
Speaker 2: (30:47)
many, many years. Exactly. Right. And so, um, you know, just, that’s just kind of how our relationship went, like here and there. And it’s not like we talked on the phone, it would be a random text here and there. And so the day, um, like that Tuesday I had meld in the results on Monday and that Tuesday I text him and I said, I said, Hey, you know, I would like to talk to you. I said, I, I would, I would like to do it in person. And I said, I know that, you know, we have our issues and stuff and you know, but I would like to come and see you. And my ultimate goal there was, you know, me and my husband go and meet with him. And that way I could sit down with him, I could explain the situation. And you know, this man has been in my life for 38 years. So it’s not like I just want to say, Hey, see you. Regardless of our relationship. And you know, my, my whole goal was, Hey, maybe we can sit down, I can explain everything and then we can maybe move forward. Like, we can try to build a relationship. Like, you know, my hope was that he would be like, Hey, you know, you’re my kid. It doesn’t matter. You know, I still love you. Like, I do need to try harder I guess is what I want.
Speaker 1: (32:06)
Which I well, well I was, I was, yeah, I was imagining that the two of you might find a connection over both being being sort of surprised and both being accidentally, I sort of accidentally tricked or you know, not that your mom was malicious, but of course, and that, you know, this would be, this would be, this could be a way to come together. I can like opening the door, I can tell them, see, I can totally see where you’re optimistic intentions came from.
Speaker 2: (32:41)
Well good.
Speaker 1: (32:43)
No, I look at it and I’m like, Oh my God.
Speaker 2: (32:48)
So you know, he responded hours later and he, you know, he was like, why, what’s going on? And so, you know, at first I was just trying to be like, Hey, you know, like everything’s fine, but I want to talk to you in person because I felt like this needs to be something that I said face to face, not a phone conference.
Speaker 1: (33:09)
Yup. That makes sense to me.
Speaker 2: (33:11)
So we kind of text back and forth and then, you know, I, it was late. I didn’t hear from him again. And the next day I got the results.
Speaker 1: (33:20)
My brother and I were full siblings.
Speaker 2: (33:23)
So, um, I took, I took a screenshot of the results and I sent it to, um, my mom. Um, my biological father, I included my brother, and then I also had my step mom’s number. I had talked to her the night before. My dad had called me back and said, Hey, you know, I would like you to speak, you know, with my wife. Like, are you comfortable
Speaker 1: (33:48)
when you say step mom? You say step-mom, you mean like your, your biological dad’s wife?
Speaker 2: (33:52)
Yes, yes, yes. And so, you know, I sent a text basically with the results and I said, it’s a girl with a pink cart,
Speaker 1: (33:59)
but it really don’t
Speaker 2: (34:03)
like I, you know, I was kind of shaking like, Oh, I don’t know what to say at this point. Right.
Speaker 1: (34:08)
LOL,
Speaker 2: (34:09)
you know, and you know, everybody responded very well. And, um, at this point, the only, well, so my youngest sister knew at this point, um, from my mom and cause I had talked to her. And then my, my sister from my, um, from my, the man that raised me, she, she and I had talked, I had updated her and um, you know, so she and I spent some time talking and she, she and I had many years where we had a really rough relationship because of that kind of triangulating. So we both after going through counseling, like she and I have a very close, very positive relationship that we were able to, you know, like she’s been a huge rock for me in this situation. Soundboard and you know, so I made sure to tell her and then I text the man that raised me and I said, you know, I still would like to talk. Are you able to get [inaudible]
Speaker 1: (35:11)
yeah,
Speaker 2: (35:12)
he ended up, he ended up like panicking type thing thinking that something was wrong with my health. And so, you know, I guess I needed to be, I was trying to be vague but not, you know what I mean? It’s kind of a hard line, like
Speaker 1: (35:24)
totally hard. Yeah. Especially in this day and age of text messaging.
Speaker 2: (35:28)
Exactly. You know, and we had not talked on the phone for almost a year at this point. And so finally, like I was to go over to his house at 11 o’clock at night because he was pestering me and pestering me. And then I finally just said, you know what, I’m going to call you. And so I called him and you know, he’s like, what’s wrong? What’s wrong? And I was like, I said, you know, my health is fine. I said, but this is something that I really want to do in person. Can we talk tomorrow? And he was like, no, no. And so finally I was just like, okay. And so I just kind of blurted it out and you know, he sat there for a minute, really quiet, and then he said, um, he said, how do you know for sure? And I explained like we did DNA test question me.
Speaker 2: (36:19)
Yeah. And then he said some, you know, not so nice words about my mom, which I can understand like his probably frustration at that point. And I said, um, you know, I just kinda sat there for a second cause I didn’t quite know what to say. And he was quiet. And then I said, did you know I wasn’t yours? Which I felt like was a third question based off of our relationship. And he said, well, I suspected it when you were little, like when you were born and you know, then I asked him if he knew that they did a DNA test on me when I was a baby and he said, no, he knew nothing of this. And, um, I kind of felt almost in that moment like back to being like a teenager between them, like triangulating the parent relationship because it was just kind of, you know, and I didn’t want it to go there and I explained to him, you know, where I stood on things.
Speaker 2: (37:23)
So, you know, I did plan to meet my biological father that I did plan to pursue a relationship with my family who he was. Yeah. You know, and he said, you know, I think that, you know, and then he goes, why? Why would you do that? Yeah. I said, why, why would I do that? You know? And I, I tried to explain to him like, I’m not doing this to hurt anybody or to do anything, you know, like, my intention is not to hurt you and asked you out of my life. And I explained, I hope this is like a stepping stone that you and I can actually genuinely try to build a relationship now. And, you know, he said, you know, you’ve, you’ve been my child. You know, I hear my child, you know, which it did. It gave me kind of that little, that little spark of hope that we could actually build something.
Speaker 2: (38:13)
And, um, you know, he and I texted a lot those first couple of weeks. Um, you know about everything he was, that was the first time that he told me the reason that, you know, that he was in the wrong when it came to like my brother Jason, he’s like, I was a coward. Like I wasn’t ready to be a father. Oh, sure. And that, so that, that was huge. Like I thought that was very big of him because he’s not the type to admit he’s wrong and you know, so we talked a lot those weeks and I told him where I stood and that, you know, I was going to meet my family and then kind of radio silence, you know what I mean? Like we, I still haven’t, I still haven’t seen him. I don’t really talk to him.
Speaker 1: (38:57)
Okay. So this, cause, this all, I’m still reeling this, so this all started this year in January, so yeah. Okay. So it’s only been, it’s only been eight months total that his entire experience. Okay. So when you say you haven’t talked to him, it’s like that. Okay. That’s like all this is.
Speaker 2: (39:16)
Okay. It’s still new. Yeah, it’s still fresh for sure. And, uh, so fast forward to like two weeks after I found out, um, my biological father, my step mom and six of my siblings.
Speaker 1: (39:29)
Okay. Is everybody in Utah or in the area?
Speaker 2: (39:33)
Um, they’re kind of all over. So I have a sister that lives in Boise, a sister that lives in Virginia and then a brother that lives in salt Lake. And then my other like the younger siblings based delimit go home with, with my dad and step mom in down South in Utah. So. Okay. Um, so they came into town, we rented, we got like a banquet room at a hotel close to my house just because you know, my husband and I have five kids. But then, you know, you’ve got my dad and myself.
Speaker 1: (40:07)
It makes perfect sense to me. It’s a lot of people. A lot. You don’t, I wasn’t wondering why you got a conference room at all.
Speaker 2: (40:17)
So we, you know, we all got together, we just catered food. We, you know, my mom, my mom came as well, which I thought was nice. You know, my, my biological father wanted to include her. That’s really nice. And so she came. And then my youngest sister from my mom’s side, we had her come as well because, you know, we didn’t want her to feel left out of anything.
Speaker 1: (40:40)
Well, it seems like it seems like excluding people is the, uh, like the wrong, uh, like I don’t know the wrong message, the wrong opposite of value system that, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2: (40:56)
So, you know, that kind of started, you know, like we, that just kind of started it. And then, um, a couple of weeks after that I met one of my, I met my other brother that lives local and probably can, um, you know, he and I kind of clicked like pretty quick and you know, we, I guess the first thing that like going back to when we all got together as we’re all sitting there and it’s so funny, my sister Denise lives in Boise and we’re sitting across the table from each other and we’re both history as each other. And I’m like, I’m not trying to be creepy, but like, we pulled the same facial expression
Speaker 1: (41:31)
[inaudible]
Speaker 2: (41:32)
we’re watching each other. Like
Speaker 1: (41:34)
if we smile and just like all of these, you know, things and then you know, half of my, half of my siblings from my biological father, they, we have, we all have the eyes. I was just going to ask what else, where else
Speaker 2: (41:50)
that’s, yeah, that’s the other thing I should say is that first conversation that I had with my biological father, that was one of the first questions that I asked him as I said, what color are your eyes?
Speaker 1: (42:00)
[inaudible]
Speaker 2: (42:01)
and he said they’re like a yellowish green. And I was like, okay. I was like, that’s a big burning question for me. Right?
Speaker 1: (42:12)
Yeah, you don’t, I mean, and I don’t, I don’t, I certainly don’t want to like pressure your mom about it. But she, she, she insists that that didn’t feel like a connection to her when she, that the eyes were the same.
Speaker 2: (42:28)
Well, and that’s kind of what I asked her because she had seen my biological father like randomly through the years, you know, when they had like connected, like when they were like crossing through town, like when he was in salt Lake or she was down South. Like they would see each other, they talked on a regular basis and you know, that that was something that I asked her and I said, you know, I’m not, I’m not attacking you. I said, but you met up with him so many times. How did you not see my face? Yeah. Like, you know, you looked at my face every day for how many years? Like, and that was always my big thing because like I said, when I meet people, that’s the first thing people say to me. Right. They go, Whoa, let me see your eyes.
Speaker 1: (43:12)
And is your mom able to reflect on that or cause I,
Speaker 2: (43:17)
um, that’s been kind of a, you know, we, we’ve talked, it got kinda messy, kind of dicey there for a bit because, um, my, my brother and I were, we both had very like, strong personalities and stuff. So I think sometimes, like when, when we’re talking, she feels like it’s an attack. Like on her personally, like even when we’re like just saying, Hey, like what about this? Like when it’s more, I just have all these unanswered questions. Right. You know, and I’m, I’m getting better at not playing the, what is game because those first couple of months it was rough. Yeah. You know, I, I would, I would, I would be like, what if, what would be different? And you know, my whole thing is like everything happens when it’s supposed to. I believe that and reason being is if it would have been different, like maybe I wouldn’t have met my husband and I want to have my children or you know, and I would, I would never change that ever, ever. And so, um, outside of, you know, like getting the relationship that I’ve always craved and I have this whole new family mean I have, my dad has one of 13 children and so I have 101st cousins.
Speaker 1: (44:39)
Wow. Well my gosh.
Speaker 2: (44:43)
So I have this huge extended family, whereas I grew up, this the man that raised me, you know, he only had three brothers and I had like six cousins, you know, five, five or six.
Speaker 1: (44:56)
This feels like an obvious question or an obvious, maybe an obvious answer, but I feel like people will, will make the assumption. So I’ll just go ahead and ask. Is, um, is everybody Mormon? Is that why there’s so many kids? No, I understand. That is a common question.
Speaker 2: (45:13)
Some are, but not all that, that’s always a question people and you’re taught, right?
Speaker 1: (45:20)
Yeah. Well, it kind of is. And then it was like, Oh, this is, I’m just going to, I found myself this stuff.
Speaker 2: (45:27)
No, he’s not. He’s not either. So, um, but yeah, that, that’s a common question. I, I do have a lot of family that is LDS, but, okay. But we’re not practicing,
Speaker 1: (45:37)
but they had 13 kids. Just, just then you’ve got biking just goes. Okay. Okay, great. Continue.
Speaker 2: (45:45)
No, it’s funny. I love it. But, uh, you know, when I, I guess I just realized that I skipped over when I announced on Facebook.
Speaker 1: (45:56)
Oh.
Speaker 2: (45:58)
So when this all went down in January, I, you know, I, I wrote up a post and I was very careful with my words and, um, you know, I, I was embraced by, you know, everybody was like, Whoa, this is crazy. Like, you know, people don’t realize, I guess how often it happens and, um, nobody has any idea right now, you know, so definite shock, everything along those lines. But I was, um, I was surprised by the outpouring of love of people just like messaging me personally or texting me and saying, Hey, I just want to make sure you’re okay. I’m here, you know, all of those things. And in that same sense, the cousins that I grew up with from the man that raised me, I didn’t hear from one with them. Huh, interesting. I still haven’t like this many months later, we’re, we’re friends on Facebook. They see my posts of me and my new siblings or me and my father, you know what I mean? Like all of you, which, you know, it’s okay. I mean, I, I felt the pain of hurt there for a minute, and then I was just like, you know, it’s okay, move on. Like I can’t focus on that kind of stuff, you know? But, um, okay. So let me fast forward. Oh, okay. So I decided to change my name.
Speaker 1: (47:24)
Yeah. That’s as I get to it, I want to get to the birth certificate.
Speaker 2: (47:29)
Yup. So after, after a couple of months, um, you know, just kinda thinking about it, I, I talked to my husband first and I said, Hey, like, I mean, I’ve had my husband, I got married when I was 17 [inaudible] and so I got married very young and I’ve been with him, we’ve been together for 22 years. So we grew up together and, uh, you know, I told him, I said, you know, I think I want to change my name. Like obviously keep your name, but I think I want to add my dad’s name. And he was like, that’s cool. Like, I understand, you know, I mean, I, I’ve had my husband’s name longer than I have my maiden name, you know, and so when I, you know, when I talked to my dad, I, I was, I was like scared to bring it up and I don’t know why I was like nervous and I was like, Hey, I, I’ve been thinking about changing my name, um, you know, with, would you be comfortable with that?
Speaker 2: (48:28)
Like, what your wife’s be okay with it. And he was like, that’s great. He’s like, I want to do your birth certificate. Like, you know, he brought up the bursary and you know, that that’s like meant so much to me. I was like, Oh, thank you. Like, um, I went to, I’ve had to go to the, it was pretty easy to change my name. I went to the courthouse, got the paperwork, I had to fill it out. I went to a 15 minute court session, explained why I was changing my name and then, um, then I had to wait a couple months because my dad lived four and a half hours away and I had to have both my mom and my dad there to be able to change my birth certificate. Oh, okay. So we, uh, we were able to do this in August and we, you know, we went in there and got everything all done and the, it was kind of funny though because the lady, you know, as we’re filling out the paperwork, she calls my mom up, she calls my dad up, calls me up, and she’s like, okay, before you guys like finalize this, are you guys sure.
Speaker 2: (49:40)
And I laughed out loud.
Speaker 2: (49:43)
I was like, if you only knew the story behind the whole thing, and so, you know, we got it all updated and we don’t see that every day. Right. We got, um, you know, we got him added, we got my name legally changed on there. And, uh, that’s when I posted those pictures online, you know, that, um, you know, that was, that was a huge thing for me. And it’s, um, you know, I told my husband like, it almost feels silly because it’s, it’s a piece of paper that sits as an for right? Like it’s thing, you know, but it just, it meant the world. Um, I just felt so good when I left there and you know, it’s the, it’s, it’s just like looking in the mirror now I guess. Like, you know, how somebody had posted the other day on our, on our group, how, you know, when you look in the mirror, like, you know, when you almost don’t know who you are type thing.
Speaker 2: (50:44)
And mine was the opposite. It was like this, I woke up after all this kind of went down originally in January and I looked in the mirror and for the first time, like I saw myself, I knew who I looked like, you know, I, I wasn’t looking and searching for, for something, you know? And I think that’s been my biggest thing here is that all of these years I just kind of felt like there was this big piece missing. And now it’s just like, I don’t feel that anymore. And you know, I sound so grounded. Yeah. Yeah. You know, and I, I mean, I still, I have a lot of like unresolved stuff, you know, with the man that raised me that I’m still trying to work through. And, you know, I, I get pains of guilt there that like, my relationship with my biological father is so, it’s so different and I feel so good about it.
Speaker 2: (51:47)
And you know, I, I guess I felt the guilt because, you know, the man that raised me, like, you know, he was my dad for a long time. But I, I just feel so different about my, about my biological father and I know it’s all, you know, it’s, it’s okay to feel all those emotions and that, that’s what my counselor reminds me. Like, it’s okay, it’s okay to feel sad about it. It’s okay to feel, you know, angry about this, that, and the other. But you know, all we have is like going forward. Like I can’t, I, I can’t do the one F four right. You know, any of these things like that’ll kill you or it’ll make you crazy. Exactly. You know, it makes you, it makes you go crazy, you know, in your own mind. And you know, this has been like the, the best thing for me though.
Speaker 2: (52:36)
Like overall it, his, it’s life changing but it’s exactly what I needed and I, I still don’t understand why it happened at this point. Like I said, like, you know, how many times points in my life was it? So, you know, where I just felt so lost or so sad about my state of the relationship with the man that raised me and you know, it all happened at the right time. And my, my biological dad is just so, you know, he has 10 kids, but he has a way of making you feel so special in your own way. [inaudible] even when he’s in a room full of his children, like, you know, we all just went on our first camping trip together last month and I got to meet, I got to meet my final, my last sister that I hadn’t met yet. And uh, you know, we’re, we’re all together and it’s just, it’s still, I guess just like a shock to me when I’m looking into like my face and my eyes.
Speaker 1: (53:34)
Yeah. Yeah. It’s so beautiful. It’s so cool. This is the story. I mean, people have, people have, other people have had like good quote unquote good stories but, or good ending stories kind of. But this is a different, it’s just a totally different angle to be like, to be like, it’s what I was always waiting for and didn’t even know.
Speaker 2: (53:55)
Well that’s exactly it. It’s that piece of the puzzle that was missing. And um, you know, for both myself and my older brother like it, it’s been so good for, for both of us because you know, he, he’s never been like super active in all the families, like going to family reunions and stuff like that. But guess what? We went to our first family reunion.
Speaker 1: (54:18)
You roped him in. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2: (54:21)
Now, now that’s important to him. And it’s, I love that because I know that that’s the same thing for him. Like that it was just like, you know, we always have that connection that was there no matter what. Like we, you know, even when we went through times where we were kind of at each other, we always like found our way back and we were always just had that close relationship and you know, we know no, there’s a reason why. Right.
Speaker 1: (54:48)
Yeah. And I know well, and you’re definitely the first person that’s ever S that’s, that I’ve talked to that said this is just the best thing that ever happened to me. Um, Oh yeah, that is a fun and like refreshing perspective for sure. Um, and, and like the good, that’s like, it’s like one of those like, uh, I don’t know. We always talk about all the warnings that should happen on the, on the day, but now it’s like, you’re like, I got the life I always wanted. Well, you know,
Speaker 2: (55:22)
and I’m just, you know, I, I’m so grateful when I see those posts of like people being shunned by their, their new biological family and I’ve just been embraced by everybody and you know, and I still haven’t met everybody, obviously because there’s so many.
Speaker 1: (55:38)
Right. I mean, could you,
Speaker 2: (55:40)
but I did meet, I did meet my, um, paternal grandmother and to lie for her 84th birthday. So that was that, that was awesome. That was huge for me, just because, um, you know, my, my grandfather, um, unfortunately passed in a plane crash back in 1996 and so I believe that I met him when I was younger at one time or another. Um, but I don’t, I don’t remember, but to be able to, you know, meet my grandmother and, uh, do that was a pretty cool experience. Yeah. And that’s where it, that’s where the ice came from, by the way. She’s got the yellow, green eyes.
Speaker 1: (56:18)
Ah, good to know. I’m just saying the mystery is solved, but I’m not sure it was ever really [inaudible], but in my head. Right. Oh dad, it’s really beautiful. I love, I love, I just love the idea of all these people with yellow, green eyes connecting anything your brother and you just realizing how to just, it’s really cool. I love it.
Speaker 2: (56:47)
You know, like I said, there’s still, you know, it’s still those random moments where I, I feel bad that nothing has changed and, you know, but my whole thing there is I have to remember that I, I can’t control it. I can’t change it. Like it takes, you know, takes two to work on that relationship and, you know, until, until we’re at that point, you know, it is what it is. I mean, I’m just grateful for the future and I am, I am grateful for, you know, all the support that I’ve had. My, my husband’s been amazing. My kids have been good. And, um, you know, I’m just blessed all the way around with, you know, this huge extended family now that just kind of pumps up all the time. I guess. You know, I, I went to the family reunion and everybody’s like, Oh, you’re the one, you’re [inaudible]
Speaker 1: (57:37)
[inaudible]
Speaker 2: (57:40)
when they put two and two together as to who I was.
Speaker 1: (57:42)
Right. Oh my gosh. I can only imagine what that was like for everybody. Um, yeah, I don’t know why you wouldn’t, I just, you can, I mean like nothing, none of these things are like a hundred percent critical or clean, but why wouldn’t you just lean into where the love is instead of spending energy? Isn’t that makes perfect sense to me.
Speaker 2: (58:04)
Yeah, I agree. And that’s, you know, moving forward and just continuing to build those new relationships and you know, that’s really all I can hope for.
Speaker 1: (58:13)
[inaudible] that’s beautiful. That’s cool. Well, the questions I ask everybody are, or the question, um, do you have advice for anybody that’s just figured this out or that has maybe just like entering their own DNA? PRI
Speaker 2: (58:35)
I, I have somebody close to me now that just went through this. My husband recently connected with a first cousin on 23 in me that I actually helped her kind of solve her mystery and find out which of my husband’s uncle, but it’s her biological father.
Speaker 1: (58:51)
Oh wow. And
Speaker 2: (58:53)
so she and I have really connected over this, um, you know, and I just told her that, you know, the best advice I can give is just like fill every emotion. Like, you know, him embrace all the feelings, even the negative ones, and um, you know, talk to people. I think that’s the big thing is that, um, you know, like we had talked about before is there’s sometimes a lot of shame associated with these type of situations. And I, you know, in my case, I don’t think it was intentional that, you know, it was like kind of pushed that direction. Like, keep it quiet, hush, hush. Right. Um, you know, but everybody, everybody has a right to have their voice and you can do it in a respectful way and you can, um, you know, you have the right to, to find out who you are or where you come from. And, you know, I, I love seeing all the good stories that everybody shares on our, on our group. And, you know, I, I try to always encourage anybody who’s having a bad day or who’s having a rough one. Like I don’t personally understand it from their perspective, but, um, you know, always gives me encouragement. Like, you know, Hey, don’t give up. Like, you know, you maybe wake up tomorrow and the situation’s totally different.
Speaker 1: (01:00:08)
Right? Yeah, yeah. I mean there’s just no way to know.
Speaker 2: (01:00:13)
Exactly. You know, and uh, all I can hope for is that anybody else that you know goes through this situation that, you know, they can find the peace that, that I did. Like, you know, this, this whole thing basically made me feel like I wasn’t crazy, I guess.
Speaker 1: (01:00:30)
Yeah.
Speaker 2: (01:00:30)
I don’t know how to explain that other than, you know, I, I always saw these things or had these random things and I really thought I was just seeing things or misreading things or you know,
Speaker 1: (01:00:43)
it just, well, it just goes to show how strong intuition is.
Speaker 2: (01:00:48)
Well, and that’s exactly, it is like you, you know, you follow this gut instinct, like if you know something’s off, like trust.
Speaker 1: (01:00:59)
Yeah, exactly. [inaudible] and you never, I just remembered this because I was gonna I mean I just remembered that I was going to ask it. You never got to the bottom of the DNA of the DNA test mystery from when you were a baby.
Speaker 2: (01:01:16)
So we did not like I’ve asked my mom about it. And so, you know, unfortunately everybody else who was there aside from my mom and I asked path, um, and so my mom said that my, her mother arranged it. They went to a doctor’s office of her choosing. She said that they poked my finger, they poked her finger and then she doesn’t even know the timeframe or anything. And then she just, you know, she said she doesn’t know if it was weeks or, you know, she just said, yep, it’s his kid. And when I brought that up to the man that raised me, you know, he says there’s no way that happened because he said, my parents want to keep that from me. And he, you know, so he, he doesn’t believe it. My mom doesn’t have obviously any paperwork or anything, you know, along those lines. And there’s not really, you know, she’s like, I honestly don’t even remember where it’s
Speaker 1: (01:02:22)
right. Like how to even get, or any records of that. Yeah. Oh, that’s so, so it’ll just be like a mystery of tell somebody’s not telling the truth somewhere in there, but impossible to know.
Speaker 2: (01:02:38)
Exactly. And that’s, you know, that that drove me crazy for a little bit. I’m not going to lie because I was just like, okay, did, like my grandmother knows something and she, you know, because my grandmother did not want my, like my mother to be with my biological father. She is actually the one that introduced my mother to the man that raised me knowing that he was much older than her and kind of like pushing her in that direction, you know?
Speaker 1: (01:03:11)
Right. So maybe, yeah, I’m sure everybody has it ever DOE. Right. And I’m sure everyone had the best intentions, whatever it was, but, um,
Speaker 2: (01:03:20)
and that’s exactly,
Speaker 1: (01:03:22)
and it’s a good, you know, yeah. It’s just another, like another sort of testimony to like the truth will come out.
Speaker 2: (01:03:30)
Right. No, I agree. You know, it always comes out somewhere and it’s, uh, the interesting thing is that, um, so ancestry.com is based in Utah. It’s LDS based. I’m sure you know that.
Speaker 1: (01:03:47)
Oh, I didn’t know. That. Makes perfect. That makes perfect sense. Okay. It does.
Speaker 2: (01:03:53)
So I, you know, I’ve interacted with numerous people in Utah and when I tell them, you know, kind of my story about it, um, one of the, is it called the genealogist? Is that the right word? Um, he told me that it basically comes down to one in five people is being raised by someone that is not their biological father.
Speaker 1: (01:04:18)
That is twice as many as I’ve heard one in five, one in 10, one to 10. I’ve heard one in 10, one in five.
Speaker 2: (01:04:29)
Wow. Huh. And this was probably like two months ago when he and I talked and he said, you know, they feel, you know, they have all these people who they felt these calls and people are like, there’s no way. There’s no way. And you know, it, it is coming down to one and five.
Speaker 1: (01:04:44)
Wow. Oh my God, this is like a, it’s like a tight title wave of a phenomenon that we didn’t even even imagine
Speaker 2: (01:04:55)
we have in our, even our, you know, in our group every day is, you know, the numbers are creeping up faster and faster and um, you know, that’s just, that’s wild to me. It’s absolutely shocking and
Speaker 1: (01:05:08)
wow. But yeah, I’m going to, that’s gonna like, I’m going to have to think about that for a little while. Right.
Speaker 2: (01:05:17)
I was just like, wow. Wow. Like you’re walking around and you know, I mean, you see that like now I, I do, I look at people all the time. Oh, sure. Oh wait, it’s one of your kids looks a little different. Totally. Like that one’s a little darker. Yeah, exactly. It’s just how we overanalyze everything else.
Speaker 1: (01:05:43)
Right. Oh, well thank you so much. This is so great to get your story and to hear such a positive good. I want to say conclusion, even though the story’s not over. But, um, I like where you’re feeling feeling really whole and, and then it was like a really overwhelmingly good experience. Like, so happy for you and your brother.
Speaker 2: (01:06:05)
I appreciate you having me and letting me share and kind of have a voice and all the chaos, right?
Speaker 1: (01:06:12)
Yeah. Yeah. I mean that’s, that’s what all we can do. [inaudible]
Speaker 2: (01:06:16)
exactly. But no, I appreciate you and taking time out of your busy day to talk to me and
Speaker 1: (01:06:22)
okay. Yeah, no, that’s great. That’s really, it’s really fun. It’s really, really fun to hear all these different stories and no two are alike, that’s for sure.
Speaker 2: (01:06:31)
Exactly. Well, I’m always on countdown to Fridays when you release the pods, my phone like right when it comes in.
Speaker 1: (01:06:41)
Oh, how funny. Great. Oh, good. I’m so glad. Um, so if you, I tell everybody this, if, um, if anything comes up that you feel like you want edited, like if you think of something that you don’t want to be in it or you think of something you want to add, just just send me a message or if anything else comes up. Um, and I will let you know when it’s coming. It’ll probably be, it’s going to be pretty soon. He’ll probably be in like four weeks. Um, I’ll, yeah, but I’ll let you know and thank you so much. This is so cool. And I’m tell, you know, I, I would love to know what your 100 cousins think and um, right.
Speaker 2: (01:07:20)
But he goes, he goes, my Facebook friends tripled in a matter of weeks. But I will tell you the funny, I have to, I have to quiz my husband to name all my siblings because I now have 12 siblings and so we have to go down the line so he can remember who everybody is. Well, their name, flashcards or like photograph, right, name, tags, mindset of an understanding of family. And
Speaker 1: (01:07:53)
Oh, it sounds really fun to me.
Speaker 2: (01:07:56)
I love it. So thank you so much for your time and I cannot wait to hear it.
Speaker 1: (01:08:00)
Awesome. Thank you so much, Nicole. This was awesome. I will be in touch with you.
Speaker 2: (01:08:04)
Okay. Sounds good. Have a great day. Bye. Okay, bye. Bye.
Letters From a Listener
Speaker 1: (00:08)
Hi. My name is Linda Lagoonis. Um, I am going to read to you an email that I sent to Eve a few weeks ago. Um, this is like my 15th take. So whatever mistakes I make from here on out, it’s just going to have to stay that way. Where to begin, thank you so much for your podcast. I was born in El Paso, Texas in 1968 up until about 15 years ago. I thought I shared a father with my two brothers. My birth certificate father was violent and abusive. Honestly, it was a miracle that my mom survived that situation. I was born about a year after my mom left him. My mother also always told me that she’d lied to him about the pregnancy because in Texas at the time you could not divorce the father if there was a child on the way. Strangely, I have never fact checked that, but there you go.
Speaker 1: (00:58)
She ran away from home and had an RV in the desert with the boys. My mother had to go straight to work with three kids to support. We went to live with my grandma and she essentially raised me as her daughter and I’ve always thought of my mom is more of a father figure and a mother and the years after I, after I think my grandmother tried to tell me, well, I know she did, but she got all the characters wrong and it all boiled down to me being, according to her, the bastard child had an Italian sailor, wrong branch of the service and wrong ancestry, but she tried. Fast forward to 15 years ago and I met my godmother’s house. I love her, but she’s the one with the big mouth who always lays an egg at major holidays and birthdays. You learn to expect this and to duck and roll.
Speaker 1: (01:44)
I was telling her about a clinic I go to here in San Francisco called the native American health center. I told her it was low income and you don’t even have to be native American to go there. She stopped and looked at me and Mo and looked me in the face with that one twinkly eyes. She always gets in, said, well, your dad was native American. Wait. What I also happened to be Mexican as was my birth certificate father, so I naturally assumed she made, she met native Mexican just as many tribes and just as screwed over by the government as their Northern cousins. It all comes rolling out. She and my mom were running wild in the streets of El Paso with military men off the face off the base of Fort bliss. No one can remember this guy’s name, Jack James. John, of course, the first chance she got my cousin confronted my mom in front of me.
Speaker 1: (02:36)
Her eyes teared up and I knew it was true. She told me he was Irish and that was kind of weird. When you grow up thinking you’re Mexican, it takes a bit of adjusting to believe you are half white. It’s not that just something you have to wrap your head around, but it makes sense. I’m dark but with freckles and a very long sharp nose, which I can only describe as looking a little like Elvis Presley’s. There’s a point to this long ass story and I’ll get to it. I tried for years to look for him, but what’s such a common name? I got nothing, absolutely nothing, but something in my heart told me that he was dead. There’s not a trace of him. My mom says the guy on my baptism certificate was his best friend and to look him up, it was an Italian last name bonus points for having an Italian godfather, a.
Speaker 1: (03:26)
I managed to find him on Facebook. He was kind and asked after my mom and my godmother and her son and my brothers, so it’s legit. He tells me he can’t remember much, but he’ll save my number and if he ever finds anything, he’ll call me. After a while, I just give up until last year, 10 years after I stopped looking. I was in a car with my mom and my cousin and we invoked his name and I was telling them both that I didn’t think I would ever find him and that I thought he might be dead. And then ding, I had a message, I’m not lying. It was my godfather with a text. He had a picture of my father, him and another army bunny buddy. He hadn’t forgotten. He had catched my name on a slip of paper in his wallet all that time and the minute he found a photo of him, he sent it to me.
Speaker 1: (04:23)
He’s gone on to be such a dear person to me and he takes his job as my godfather quite seriously. Are you still with me? It’s long right from this picture. I can see his rank from the bars on his arm and the shape of his hat. 10 years after I give up, I see that someone has finally put up a Memorial of him. He also looks a teeny bit like Elvis in a way. He died in 1996 and this is why there was no information about him on the internet and hadn’t been invented yet. In his bio. There is a notation that his great grandfather is the governor John for Brown, the last standing chief of the Oklahoma Seminole nation. His great aunt is Alice Davis, the first female chief of the Oklahoma nation, some Seminole nation. His mother is registered as Creek and his father is English or Irish from what I can tell, but he looks by racial in a way that my son does Hazel eyes, Tawny skin.
Speaker 1: (05:24)
But this answers to question why it turned out so dark for being half white and why my son turned out so light for being such a dark mama and my son looks like his spitting image to me anyway, so I ran off to do a DNA test. I know, I know people in Texas have always had a bit of a giggle whenever we hear of someone who by all appearances looks fairly Caucasian. When they say they’re related to Pocahontas or some other native princess, you hear it a lot. People have rented written entire college dissertations on it. It’s a thing. I’m 43% native American and 41% Spanish. My mother is miss Theasa, so the most weak she could have passed down to me is around 15%
Speaker 1: (06:10)
if my biological father is just some Irish English person, from what I understand, we are direct descendants from the family that made it to Oklahoma from Florida. On the trail of tears. My other ancestor is cha chief John jumper. We are from the tire tiger clan, which is where all the chiefs come from. I know it’s crazy. I’ve since found out, found two sisters, both of whom are tribal members. My father and his brother died of heart attacks in their mid fifties they were, the sisters were very receptive at first and they knew about me. My birth father had told them about me and told them to be on the lookout for me. They told me everything, everything, photos, history, everything, but they will not take an ancestry test and after I asked, they stopped corresponding with me. I suspect this is because the older sister.
Speaker 1: (07:06)
Anyway, there are more of us. Seven total. I suspect I got a hit from half-brother, but he absolutely will not message me back. I’m trying to find a definitive DNE leak so that I might find it so that I might become a tribal member. Native American ancestry is difficult for many reasons. Many took on European last names. There weren’t last names before this, so you might have a person named Doherty who looks like me or Benson. It just isn’t, isn’t apparent and it’s very difficult to trace back. I also have a suspicion there are some questionable branches and NPS on my birth, father’s paternal side. I want to mention here that there are also identity politics involved as well. Just because you have native blood, it does not make you a native American. This is a grand journey of learning and reading and study and building up native American consciousness, fostering relationships and kinship.
Speaker 1: (08:06)
I’m not going to stolen thinking I have some sort of birthright. I don’t want to presume anything and you know, if it doesn’t happen, I accept that too, but I would like to find my four other brothers and sisters. I will end the story with a short little anecdote. When I was little in living in Texas, there were annual rodeos and powwows. My stepfather took me to one once. It was gorgeous at night afterwards, people lined up to get their pictures taken with the dancers in the regalia. I remember looking up as I pose next to them and thinking, huh, a little light went off in my head and I sort of felt that maybe I wasn’t so different from them. Maybe I kind of look like them, but as I was standing there, a family with children put them right up next to me to get a picture of me with her kids and I think maybe that’s when I knew.
Speaker 1: (08:56)
Thank you for having the patience to Wade through this. I’m still working through the story. I don’t have proof, but what my grandmother, my godfather and my godmother and my presumed sisters have told me I would really like to meet a search angel who would be equally fascinated by what I’ve uncovered for now. I will send you pictures to link to my father’s grave and his photo. I have many more pictures. I hope motherhood is treating you well. I never set out to be a mom, but now that I am, I cannot imagine my life any other way. Kindest regards to you and thanks for all the work you do. And thanks for putting up with this weird little recording that I’ve made here. My name is Linda Laguna sapwood.
