Mysterious Conception: A Story Unravels

Speaker 1: (00:00)

Like that. And now we’re recording. Okay, great. So, okay, so let’s go back because you’re starting to tell me everything. Let’s start with 2013 when you said, hey, let’s take this, let’s do this ancestry.com thing or, or whatever. Yeah.

 Speaker 2: (00:16)

So, right. I, I ordered the kit online and it was mailed to me and nothing in particular struck me as being odd. Um, in fact, it connected me to cousins that I knew already. Oh. And family that had already done it. So I saw it’s supposed to work. Right. And I think for the most part, I was only expecting to get new information where my genetics were concerned as far as what, you know, ethnic backgrounds and stuff like that. And so I was a little surprised with one of the ethnicities that came back. Um, being that I’ve always been raised thinking that I was totally Mexican American and there was no other real curiosity, maybe just a little bit of Asian because it was rumored that there was Asian and my background

 Speaker 1: (01:04)

that was before already, you already knew there may be a little bit of Asian. Right. But mostly it was on that to come up with an American pride. 

Speaker 2: (01:10)

Yeah, definitely. And then when I saw like 20 something percent of Middle Eastern, yeah, yeah. Took me aback. And then when I told my mom, she was like, no way, nope, we’re not Middle Eastern. Like she totally did not. Yeah.

 Speaker 1: (01:27)

There’s no space. There’s no space for Middle Eastern in a Mexican American family.

 Speaker 2: (01:32)

See it at all. So, um, it, it made her, I guess, think about her side of the family or my birth certificate, Dad’s side of the family, and just, it was not anywhere she wanted to go. 

Speaker 1: (01:45)

So, so interesting. And at this point, what was your relationship like with your mom? 

Speaker 2: (01:49)

Well, my mom and I had an interesting relationship because she didn’t raise me my whole life. So right now I would say at that time we were in a great place. I thought, okay, because, um, I had moved back home and because she had, you know, I had only lived with her maybe three years that I remember, like during, you know, my seventh child childhood that, um, I felt like it was kind of rebalancing the scale between us and we were creating. It was, it was kind of like mending those wounds for me. I felt from childhood that, you know, she had raised me and she hadn’t raised me for part of the time. And now it was like we were back in this, you know, environment together and working things out.

Speaker 1: (02:31)

Totally. Well, I can imagine how, especially like as an adult going back to live with a mom, with your mom, it’s, and it’s all would be an opportunity you would imagine would be, would be an opportunity to maybe men some things or get to know each other in a different way. Yes. Um, so you were feeling hopeful. 

Speaker 2: (02:47)

Yes, I was. I knew it was going well. It was going really well. Um, and then I want to say maybe December of 2016 I received a notice from my ancestry.com account and they told me that there was a new person and when I looked up at the list, she rose above like so many of my cousins and she was right under my uncle that raised me. And, um, it just was like really striking because the name didn’t ring any bells with me. I’m sorry to interrupt. So the, um, so the aunt and uncle that raised you or from your mom’s side of the family? The uncle is my mom’s brother. Got It. Okay. Continue. Sorry. There’s always like all these complicated details. Right? Clarify. Okay. So my, uh, my first instinct was looking, you know, at the last name, which I have an uncle, I don’t even consider him a step uncle.

 Speaker 2: (03:48)

He is my mom’s brother, but he, he technically would be a a half. Okay. So it was the same last name, but um, and asking around the family, there was no person by this name. I don’t even know if I should say her name can make up a name. Okay. So I’m thinking Finkelstein. Okay. So there was no name and I ran it by, we have a couple of subgroups I guess in Facebook, cousins and whatnot. And nobody claimed her. We don’t know nobody. It’s just seemed like nobody was answering. And I thought, okay, maybe this girl doesn’t know who she is. And I felt so sorry for her because she’s this orphan or maybe she was a, you know, all these different ideas and fantasies are running through my head. And then I thought, well, because my birth certificate dad came from a really big family.

 Speaker 2: (04:48)

He was one of 17 oh my gosh. Oh my gosh. I just thought, okay, I know I have nine aunts and you know, like I guess six uncles and maybe one of my uncles had a one night stand or who knows anything’s possible in that family. So I kind of left it alone for a while and, but it kept bothering me and I emailed her a few times, maybe like five or six over the course of a year as Merelda. Yeah. I will say as Marilla and she wouldn’t reply. And I thought, why would you even sign up for a system that’s going to connect you with people that are your relatives and were very closely related first cousins maybe, you know, it just didn’t make sense to me. So I took some time off. I did mention it to my mom and, and this was something that had been brought up in conversation throughout my life where I had asked, you know, having an uncle who said that I might not be the same. Uh, so you had an uncle. So, um, what you and I talked about before we started recording was that you had an uncle that would occasionally

 Speaker 1: (05:58)

drop sort of passive aggressive comments about how maybe you and your brother didn’t have the same dad. Yes. And I was the milk man. Yeah. Yeah. He would make little, yeah, little jokes. Okay. I could have been my father down the street. That was the joke. Right? So you already had that idea in your mind. Right? So now you’ve got, um, a strange ancestry.com results. And now the second level is that this Esmerelda has shown up. So when you talked to your mom, you had all these ideas. Okay. Yeah. 

Speaker 2: (06:27)

Okay. So when I asked my mom about it, she said, well, what would you tell the as Morel just felt not as rosy as a family, but the, the family that I grew up with as thinking that they were my biological father. And I said, well, I just kind of reacted slowly and I said, I wouldn’t tell them anything because I don’t want to hurt them. And they’ve grown up with me. Most of, you know, my whole life thinking I’m their nephew, cousins and there, and I just don’t want to hurt anybody. But I do want to know the truth, right. For myself. So I’m sorry. Um, 

Speaker 1: (07:04)

well this is good. I’m just trying to catch everybody up. So no, it’s not confusing. It’s just, um, these things are so layered. And uh, so your birth certificate, father, he died when you were, what was it? You were eight years old, but his family stayed a big part of your life because it’s so much a big part. But they were, they were there, they were there. And you were their nephew and I was their nephew. So you have, you have a relationship with it to him?

 Speaker 2: (07:29)

Kinship with them. I would only see them maybe once or twice a year because like I said, my uncle had taken legal custody of me. Right. And then they hit you or moving. You would move to other states? I have them around the state. Okay. Sorry. Continue though. Um, but the biggest thing was that the first time in my life that my mother actually sounded like there could be a possibility that this, that my brother and I could have different fathers and that’s what really blew my mind because I had asked her many times before in the past and she always contended with the same thing that she knew when I was conceived. She knew where she was

 Speaker 1: (08:07)

married to see the whole thing. How many years apart are you and your brother? Five years. Okay. Yeah. And did he go live with your aunt and uncle when you were little? Just you. Okay. Yeah, just me. Right, right. And that was always, yeah. 

Speaker 2: (08:19)

Question in my mind too, you know, why didn’t they take him? Um, he was a little bit older. Um, probably would have had a harder time with accepting them as parental be a much more memorable transition for him. She was already too attached to my mom, I think [inaudible] and I was, they said I would go with anybody. Like everybody watched me. No, I didn’t give anybody any problems. So, um, yeah, so then, 

Speaker 1: (08:48)

okay, wait, now you’re asking your mom again and she’s saying that she’s, oh, waffled a little.

 Speaker 2: (08:56)

And so I think I wrote as a morale to again and asked her, you know, about our situation and she never replied to me via ancestry.com so I thought it’s been awhile. I think I need to step up the process here and find out what’s going on because it just felt urgent to me. It was, it was bothering me. It was sitting on my, like my chest, my, you know, my, my shoulder and I just wouldn’t go away. And so I thought about it and I, I asked my brother if he would do the test because I thought this is the one person that I could ask and if it doesn’t match, then middle, it should make sense. Right. That answers that. Right. So I bought it from him. I met him, you know, they mailed it to him. He did it even though he thought he thinks the whole thing is B s according to him, he didn’t feel like it was even worth doing.

 Speaker 2: (09:57)

Okay. But, but he, you know, he went ahead and did it and um, the results came back and I remember it so clearly because I was at work when I got the email that, um, his results were in and I went into the account and I was able to view our relationship and all of our matches. And we had cousins, like I said, that were already on there, who of course we matched with. And then here’s Esmeralda. She doesn’t match with him, but she’s still, but she’s matching. Matching. Yeah. So I thought, okay, well how is that even possible if she doesn’t match with him? Then something is up here, we, we, it just doesn’t seem possible. Then we have to have different siblings or different fathers. It just, you know,

 Speaker 1: (10:42)

and did it, it didn’t say within the ancestry.com what the relationship is between you and your brother. Did it say half brothers or no, just connected. You kind of said like the close relationship. Okay. Okay. For a few of my family members, it’s come up like that with my uncle that raised me, it says close relationship. So it doesn’t say uncle, it doesn’t say like, I think with as Merelda it said another click close relationship. Right. Okay. Yeah, it didn’t, it didn’t go into each program. Each company seems to have like a little bit of a different system. So, and I’m not totally familiar with them by heart yet, so I feel like I need to look at it to verify it. That’s bothering me now to say exactly this was the

 Speaker 2: (11:21)

exactly what it said. But, um, so yeah. So then of course my mom texts me and I said, uh, the results are in and she says, well, is she on your brother’s list? And I said, no, and I think, I said, is there something you want to tell me

Speaker 1: (11:40)

in text message? You know, this is all kind of easier, that it text message.

 Speaker 2: (11:44)

And then she said, hold on a second. And then maybe 10 minutes later she replied. It was like waiting the longest long as of your life. And she says there was somebody else and she said that she had an affair while she was married to my, who I thought was my dad. And she said that, um, she had never talked about it and she told me the whole thing, you know, and I, and I, I asked her to tell me everything she remembered about him because I wanted to find him and I needed to, I needed to find him. I needed to see him. I need to talk to him. I needed to know. And you already that you wanted that so sure. So sure that I had to meet him because this is my father, unless there was some kind of situation where she said she was raped or it was an unwilling kind of thing.

 Speaker 2: (12:43)

But no, she was willing. And so I, I felt like I need to talk to this guy. I need to find out who he is. And so she gave me the information, his name that he, uh, where he went to high school and when he graduated and that he was in the, she gave me some real specifics, like he was in the, other than his name, that he was in the air force. She knew, she knew a lot of, yeah, there was a lot of information there. And so I, it was bugging me all day at work. When I got home. I immediately went on Facebook and I started looking around, searching. And then I found out that there was an alumni from his high school started going through a list of people. Brilliant. Yeah, right when my own Nancy drew him. So then my, um, my, uh, next thought was after looking through the alumni, um, she had the wrong name.

 Speaker 2: (13:43)

First of all, it, she other’s last name wrong. I’m thinking, well, it’s been 49 years, so I’ll give her that. You know, it was close. It started with the right first letter, but it was a little off. And, um, so I found him and he had a Facebook page. And as I looked at the page, I saw that he had, he died, he was deceased. So I was a little heartbroken at that time to find out that here is my search and here he is, he’s no longer here. And the next thing I thought was, well, you know, the person that I was looking for this Esmerelda is she tied to him or what’s the deal? So I went through his friends list and I noticed that he had a, well, I saw that he had a daughter who mentioned who said something about my father passing away and, and um, being really sad. And then I said, okay, so I possibly have a half sister here. And then I went through the friends list and there’s as Morrell Duh. And I thought, oh my gosh, I just solved the whole ministry like in a half a day and found my family. Right. And then I told my mom, I said, I found him. 

Speaker 2: (14:52)

Um, but he’s dead, he’s deceased. And she said, no way. He was just here like two years ago. Wait, wait, wait. Exactly. Exactly. I’m like that mom. Yeah. What do you mean he was here two years ago? Like this doesn’t make any sense. And she said, yeah, he stopped by the house and she said she didn’t recognize him because it had been so long and that right. I remember her saying she had, he had a little girl in the car, um, which into being his granddaughter and um, that he was talking to her and she was just kind of answering his questions but still racking her brain. Trying to remember where she knew him from. She thought he could have been one of her friends from high school. One of my brother, one of my uncles friends. She didn’t, she didn’t know. And then, yeah.

 Speaker 2: (15:38)

So then they had a short, I think, awkward conversation. And then he walked away, he said by, and as he was walking away, he turned back and he said, by the way, how’s Greg? Whoa. Yeah. That’s when she realized, oh my gosh, this is Greg’s father. Or who could have been Greg’s fault. So then she explained to me she never knew. She wasn’t sure. She always thought that, you know, scary. Right, right, right. So all this information started trickling in. And I remember asking my mom when I was little before when I had heard that there was a possibility and she had told me you were conceived on Valentine’s Day. And so I’m counting the months. I’m like, okay, yeah, my birthday is nine months after Valentine’s Day. That makes sense. But she didn’t tell me with WHO and but, but maybe she just like she says she just, she wasn’t sure and she just accepted that she rather than rock her world, I guess she just stick with the, the husband she was with.

 Speaker 2: (16:41)

But she says that he is certainly a path of less resistance. Right. And he never questioned. Um, and she said that my bio dad, this new guy always contended that he was my father. He always felt like he was my dad. So she knew. So he knew about, you knew about communication right after your birth? Yes, but I didn’t know all this yet. It wasn’t until the next day. So, so I’ve, I said I want to go visit this sister, I want to, I want to go talk to her. I want to know what she knows. And so my mom was like, okay, well I’m coming with you. So it turns out he only lived about two miles from me. Oh, heartbreaking. Heartbreaking. And to find out that one of the schools that I went to in like my junior high school, it’s a private Christian school was down the street from him.

 Speaker 2: (17:37)

So it really made me feel like he was so close. But yet so far, so far, right. Yeah. So should we show up at the house and it’s this whole thing because his house, it’s like two houses on a lot, but each one of them is facing a different direction on each different street. Sure. So we realize that he’s, his house is hard to get to and um, yeah. So No. Why would I tell them I’m coming? I felt my thing is like, I want you to tell me, cause I’ve, or I did email her on Facebook. She didn’t reply back, but it only been like 12 hours since, you know, or 24 about 24 hours. And so I just thought, I’m more of a in your face person, like I want you to know face to face. Do you want to have a relationship with me?

 Speaker 2: (18:24)

Do you want to talk honestly with me? Or look what I was dealing with. It Esmerelda is six months and she still hadn’t replied via email and I just couldn’t accept that. That was not going to be my ending where I have a question mark. So I yeah, I want to know whether it’s good, bad or ugly. I want to know. I felt that I was deserved, you know, I deserve that to know. So I went around to the next street where my sister’s house was and I remember it like she was outside throwing away some trash and I asked for her by name and she said, that’s me. And then I said, I just started kind of running my mouth like, well I did this ancestry test and you know, I think we’re related and as Marella is on the list too and I just don’t know what to do. And I emailed her and finally she stopped me and she said, who are you and your mom is my mom. My mom was in the car. She said she would wait in the car this time. Yeah. So then, um, I said, my name is Greg. And then she said, I know who you are. And I saw her whole face just changed and she said that talked about you. And he told me one day you might come looking for him.

 Speaker 2: (19:44)

So I just couldn’t believe that he knew about me because I didn’t know about him. I didn’t know for sure. And had I known for sure that, you know, I probably would have tried to find him. I would have wanted to meet him from a younger age and I’d understand why is this happening to me now? You know, I’m like 40, I was 47 at the time and he’s gone. And it just hurt me. It hurt my soul to know that I’m never going to meet. This man. Must have felt so unfair. It was, it was. And um,

 Speaker 2: (20:22)

we talked for about an hour, like maybe 30 minutes, 42 avenue. It just seemed like forever. And then I said, I should go get my mom. She’s still sitting in the car. So I walked her over and then that’s when my mom said that she knew she had made a mistake. And then just to see her face, you know, you never want to see your parent in pain like that. And I just had to tell her it’s okay. I had to forgive her. And even though I said the words, it’s okay, I forgive you. I’m still working on it. Oh sure. It’s not, I mean I wished it would be something that could just happen automatically. But I have good days and I have that days and there are some days where I wished that I had been told a lot earlier just to have that opportunity. And I don’t want to be one of those people that just, you know, sitting around and cries and feels like a victim because I do want to look at what I do have.

 Speaker 2: (21:18)

And I was thankful and very grateful that my sister was open to receiving me and I told her right away it’s not anything about like material things or monetary value. I said, I just want to know who he was, what kind of man he was telling me stories about him and that’s exactly what she’s done. Um, we’ve known each other for, there’ll be a year in May and we spend a lot of time together. Um, and we’ve gone to the cemetery together and in fact last Saturday it was his birthday, so we went to visit him together. So it’s just been really tough. As excited as I was to hear about it. It just, it was just as sad to hear about it because I think the biggest thing is, you know, just the fact that, like I said, he’s not here. I can’t hug you him.

 Speaker 2: (22:17)

I can’t talk to him. I can’t look at him. I looked at photos and I can see in the photos where we resemble each other. And I hear the stories from my sister and her kids about certain things that I’ve done or certain pictures where I looked just like him. But for me it’s just, there’s that, that just, that piece where it’s like, I’m not going to meet him until I pass away and I’m not ready to pass away. I want to enjoy it, you know, the rest of my life. But, but I am looking forward to the day that I do meet him. Cause I think that all of my questions will be answered when I, when I finally meet him. So it’s been a journey.

 Speaker 1: (23:01)

It’s such a journey, and I can’t help but think that, and I, I mean, I think you know this, but of course there’s two things that come up for me about what the little I know about you. And one is that you had, um, a childhood where you were kind of moved around a little bit and you, you had this idea subtextual idea that maybe you weren’t wanted, um, and then you lost your father. So there’s an expectation of higher, supposed to feel about that from inside yourself and then from outside. Um, and then to learn that this man was so close and, and may have, may have offered things that you felt like you were missing. Right? So that is all one level of heartbreak. And then the thing I know is that you work for child protective services and, and so you, what you must, and I don’t even know what you do at now.

 Speaker 1: (23:55)

Um, a lot of paperwork. Yeah. Yeah. No, I mean, I can only imagine my, my minimal experience with that is it. So, um, the administrative, but it’s like administrative and mundane and so heartbreaking and stressful. Um, and so much pressure. And so you deal whether or not you are dealing directly with families, your light, your livelihood is about children connecting or not connecting with the appropriate or inappropriate parents. Um, yeah, it was very low. I feel like you must’ve just been, I was torn. I was torn or, yeah. Yeah. I feel like your brain wasn’t just turned inside out. 

Speaker 2: (24:36)

Yeah. And it’s interesting. It’s just kind of strange that it happened at this time. Um, because I was working at the children’s court prior to this where I was delivering reports and didn’t have a lot of interaction with the families, but there were times where I would see, um, and hear things in the courtroom and I would see in here parents, um, in the hallways and it wasn’t always, you know, the greatest experience and some of these parents are losing their kids, some of these kids just seeing them, it was a little heartbreaking to me. Um, and then I thought, I’m transferring to another office and it’ll be different. It’ll be a different experience. And it really was a more intense experience of though I was not seeing the kids or the families per se. A lot of the social workers would consult with my boss in our office. And so I’m hearing a lot of these consultations and I’m hearing, cause I would have to go through the reports to pull out certain neglect and whatever the issue was with being detained. And um, in reading these reports there were times where I would just cry at my desk openly because, oh, absolutely. I’m a sensitive person to begin with and I have no psychology background. So to me the best way to pop just to let it go, let, let myself cry and then move on. That’s what I would recommend. Yeah.

 Speaker 1: (26:15)

I feel like you people, the, the p the kind of people that are willing to work in that field are a special kind of people. You really are. Um, because I don’t even want to, like, I couldn’t because of what you’re describing right now and you guys are willing to do it day in and day out with the intention of doing for the greater good. I think that’s really amazing.

 Speaker 2: (26:40)

Yeah. I had to take some time off and I knew that I couldn’t stay there and a, I transferred. Now I’m in adoptions, so I’m hoping that this is an area that a little bit happier, a little bit more of a upbeat kind of, um,

 Speaker 1: (26:54)

situation and goals. More celebratory. Yes. 

Speaker 2: (26:57)

Yeah, it’s, it’s just been, um, a journey, um, and itself and I had to find something that worked for me. 

Speaker 1: (27:10)

So it sounds like you’re still finding it. I am. I’m still on that path. Yeah. I’m still on that. Yeah.

 Speaker 2: (27:16)

Path. Um, because I feel like my career is just starting and I have only been there two years and I’m going to be growing and moving up, hopefully promoting, um, eventually so. 

Speaker 1: (27:30)

Well, and you’re now a new person then you went two years ago because this whole thing is turned inside out. Right? 

Speaker 2: (27:36)

Right. Yeah. If anything, I think I’ve learned not to be so judgmental. 

Speaker 1: (27:43)

Mm. Yeah. I think I have to look at my, I definitely made me look at my mom in a different way. Totally. I think, but I, yeah, I think some of this makes us see our parents in a way that no one as people, but also at a level that we’re not supposed to. Like, it’s just so humbling and I’m not, the guy

 Speaker 2: (28:01)

did that before. Even when I knew that my mom gave me a way to my uncle for good reason and felt like she would, she had my best interests at heart old. Was she when she, she was two are born, well I’m the second born so she had my brother at twin. See I think I was 26 27 yeah. So yeah, I mean young, it doesn’t, it doesn’t always matter, but she was young. But the choices she’s made in her life, I really question like it just knowing her, it just doesn’t seem like she wouldn’t make those kinds of decisions. Choices being with certain, marrying certain people and, but I can’t judge her and I think, you know, that’s who she is and that’s what she chose. So yeah. 

Speaker 1: (28:52)

Did she talk, did she talk about the affair at all and what, what that was about how long it went or what he offered her that um, well her husband wasn’t, when we start to provide 

Speaker 2: (29:03)

rather the story, cause we had, you know, my brother already, like I said, he took the exam, the, the, the kit, the test and send it back. And then, um, I didn’t say anything to him for about a month. And then my mom said we got to tell him first. She didn’t want to say anything to him then she said no, I think we need to tell him

 Speaker 1: (29:23)

he had not been logging on. He ain’t doing it in sort of, we were shut off. Think he cared. Yeah. Cause he did. I don’t think he even went on. It’s like my little brother and his friends. Okay. This weird project. Right. So when he did go on, 

Speaker 2: (29:37)

Oh, when we did speak with him, um, he said that’s, he didn’t want to do it because he felt like, oh, like maybe he knew. Yeah, I think he knew. I think he knew and then right away he looked at me and he said, it’s not going to change anything. We’re still brothers, which, you know, I always felt in my heart, this is my brother, this is all I’ve known as, you know, the only soul brother that I’ve had. Of course, I don’t think anything will change, but something has changed in me and my search for my father. Did it feel reassuring to you to hear him say that or no, I think he was, I think he was very genuine about the whole thing and I think he was processing it to and was feeling were both sagittarians he’s very different from me though, but I think he has this whole sensitive side that it doesn’t show other people, but he may show us like the family.

 Speaker 2: (30:37)

And um, so he went through it and he was crying and he was really, you know, this big macho guy. Like he, uh, he doesn’t really tap into that, his mom in a way. Right, right. Yeah. That wrap their heads around. And I think because we had, he was older, so he remembers a lot more of the volatile recent relationship that my mom and his dad had, or my mom and my birth certificate died because, um, my birth certificate dad was on drugs and he was an alcoholic also, and he was in and out of prison and jail. And so that just surprises me when my mom talks about it and it was in gangs and, you know, it just doesn’t seem like a life that we would ever be surrounded by. It seems so distant from the life that I live.

 Speaker 2: (31:34)

Right, right. I can’t see her dealing with all of that drama and being okay with it. And, um, but when I think about it, I mean, she was telling me from the beginning, she met him when he was in jail and she went with one of her friends to go visit somebody and then she saw him and she remembered him seeing him at a party and she thought he was cute. And so I guess he started riding her and the rest is history, you know? But yeah, I don’t know what that archetype is, but there is something about like the Hansen, the bad way prisoner and they’re kind of good looking, right? I mean there’s a whole subculture of those people, but there is something to be said about, especially for young, young women and knowing her now, I think she’s definitely the archetype of like, I’m going to save you.

 Speaker 2: (32:21)

You’re not going to, I’m going to change you one of those women, she’s just going to take him in and yeah. And he was going to change and be a good guy and you know, but still have that edge maybe about him, but just enough to stay sexy. Right. But not enough to be dangerous. Right. So, um, I, when we sat down with my brother and the way that my mom told the story was, do you remember when I was, this was before I was born. Um, I was really sick at the end of 19 six, what was it, 1969 she said, I was in the hospital during Christmas and my brother’s like, are ready, getting sad and crying. And he goes, I thought you were going to die. I thought I was going to be, you know, like an orphan or whatever. And then my mom said, well, I was really sick.

 Speaker 2: (33:03)

And then I got well, and I went out and I started partying and new lease on life, duly sunlife. And she told him, you know, she met a guy at a bar and right away he said, so that’s Greg’s father. He knew that it was gonna be were what the pathway was where we were going down. And she said, yeah. And she said she tried to go outside of like the regular bars she would go to. But, um, but yeah, I guess they had this little fleeing. And then I believe she told him she was married and when she got pregnant and he said that he knew that the kid was his. And, um, and I guess at that time, maybe my birth certificate dad was, have wasn’t in prison or jail and then got out and then she said, I’m pregnant. And maybe he wasn’t too bright or didn’t do the math or who knows? I don’t know. But they, everyone has pretty much contended that they think that he thinks that I was his kid all along. That there was no discrepancy. There was no, he wasn’t a magic. Anything else? No. And the other guy.

 Speaker 1: (34:15)

Okay. And why would he write? No, unless there were some kind of right at times there seems to be really obvious physical differences and things, but I guess she was

 Speaker 2: (34:23)

good actress. And in as far as, you know, I’ve been faithful and nothing’s happened while you’ve been gone and,

 Speaker 1: (34:31)

and so often pregnancies can be such an exciting thing. And for a couple that is still trying to make it work and he’s always in trouble and she’s trying to save him, I can see them just sort of like focusing on the fun of like, and we got pregnant. Yeah. Like we’re going to do this. And

 Speaker 2: (34:47)

I remember my mom saying that I was not planned prize baby. Right. But when she told me, you know, like I said, she, I’m standing at the doorstep of my half sister and she says, I know I messed up. And I said, you know, you didn’t mess up, you doing an abort me. And I said, how’d you a boarded me? Then I could say, you messed up, but I’m here. I’m happy, I’m healthy and we’ll figure it out. Right. You know, we’ll figure it out. Right.

 Speaker 1: (35:13)

So you, okay, so, so I’m gathering that you wish she had told you sooner. Do you feel like there was an age for you that would have been the right age? There’s no, I mean, and I’m just curious because that’s become something that we’ve talked about almost and everyone, everyone I’ve talked to, we come up with this sort of situation that I was given away at such a young age. I pretty much started, I felt like I was growing

 Speaker 2: (35:38)

up a lot faster than I should have to begin with. Then you know, you, you got my uncle, my mom’s brother who took me, and then they moved out of state. So we moved to Tennessee, the New Jersey, and here I am just, you know, part of the family. And then like I said, my mom never really disciplined to me. She never really parented me so much. Um, and my uncle and my aunt were always the disciplinarians and always, you know, they would give the spankings and they would tell me what to do. And so what was I going with this? I guess what I, what I was thinking was maybe she should have told me when I came back to move with her at 11 when I came back and live with her at that point. Um, but even so if she hadn’t told me then I think 18, 17 or 18 would have been great because what happened was when I met my sister at the door, she told me, dad had pictures of you.

 Speaker 2: (36:39)

And I said, looked at my mom. And I’m like, well how would he get pictures of me? How would he know me? You know, what, how does this all possible? And she kind of like a blank, like a blank stare. Like I don’t remember giving him pictures. I don’t remember talking with him. And so my sister said, I’m going to go through his stuff and I’ll text you later, take pictures of the pictures and send them to you. So may cause that’s a timeline right there. So we went to dinner, my mom and I, and as that, right when we got to dinner, we sat down and here come these text messages of my photos from when I was a baby, until my high school graduation announcement. And it broke my heart again because I’m thinking this man could’ve gotten to my graduation. Um,

 Speaker 1: (37:26)

and then it just uncovering the taste of this almost relationships. Relationships, yes. Right there. And knowing he had stopped by the house numerous times throughout my existence and I either wasn’t home, like, how come I wasn’t home? Where was I? You know, I just wish she had stopped me even on my own.

 Speaker 2: (37:44)

I would have been open to receiving him.

Speaker 3: (37:47)

Yeah. 

Speaker 2: (37:48)

Uh, that’s what hurts. Right. But if he just pushed a little bit harder or approached me without anybody around me that I would have, 

Speaker 3: (37:58)

okay. 

Speaker 2: (37:59)

I would have been open. 

Speaker 3: (38:01)

Yeah. 

Speaker 2: (38:02)

Because it was there and my, my brain. 

Speaker 1: (38:04)

Right. It’s like all along was making those suggestions. Right. So if someone had come up to you with more of that story, I would’ve believed, may have been opening,

 Speaker 2: (38:14)

I would have believed him and I would have said, how can we find out? How can we be for sure that this is true? You know, and this is like maybe the seventies and eighties so there wasn’t really a lot of enemy hear about a lot of paternity.

 Speaker 1: (38:30)

Right. They weren’t easy. There certainly weren’t eating right. Like mail order, DNA. Exactly. 

Speaker 4: (38:36)

But it sounds to me like it’s more about the relationships and not, not so much the DNA. And you’re, are you mad at your mom? I don’t want to say I’m mad at her. I’m disappointed. I’m disappointed. I am.

 Speaker 2: (38:55)

I’m sad, I’m disappointed. I feel like I thought we had a better relationship than that. You know, like my mom and I felt like we were really close. Like she was a, a friend and a mom. And when I was about 14, I came out to my mom and I told her that I thought I was gay. And she said, yeah, it’s just a phase. You’re going through, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I’m like, no, I’m pretty sure. And then we didn’t talk about it for a few years. And then I think when I was about 17, 18 years old, um, and I started dating and going out, my stepdad approached me and asked me and I said, yeah, that I was gay, just like I said, and, and, and right. And, and he goes, I want you to tell your mom. And I said, I told her when I was about 14 or 15.

 Speaker 2: (39:44)

And he goes, well, I want you to tell her again. And he said, I love you and I support you and I don’t want you to, you know, the whole thing. So it wasn’t like it was some traumatic experience. It was more, um, it was a loving experience. Actually. I was very lucky, very lucky. So for me to come out to my mom about certain things and tell her things about, you know, my love life and my sexuality, it just felt like bared your soul. Right. And I’m thinking, you’re not doing the same. This is not reciprocal, but, and it puts her back on that whole, like she’s keeping secrets. And I felt betrayed. I felt betrayed and I was very hurt, very hurt. I think I was still working through it all. It’s only been a year, right? It hasn’t even been a year. Right. Oh yeah, man, we’re not even to make, it will be a year. So of course the first thing I thought was I need therapy again cause I’ve done therapy, you know, on and off throughout. When I first found out I was gay or first started actualizing and speaking about it.

Speaker 4: (40:58)

MMM.

 Speaker 2: (41:00)

So, yeah, I, um, started seeing a psychiatrist and then he talked about, you know, going on Prozac, which I really didn’t want to try anything. That was just thinking I should be able to feel good on my own. Um, but it was worse than I thought because I, and, and I’m still dealing with all of that mental health stuff. Um, because I felt like I’m going through the motions with work and with going about my life, but I’m still kind of in a fog and I still need a lot of push to get out. I’m a procrastinator already, but now it’s just like, oh, I’m not going to like, I’ll deal with that next week or it’s even worse now. That sounds like you’ve got, you have this trauma and then on top of that, like a compounded grief, right? Like no one would expect you to be 100% functioning happy person.

 Speaker 2: (41:52)

A year ago when she did tell that to my former boss, because she just thought, who did I hire? Like this kid was, I don’t know, magical at first and now he’s crying at his desk. He doesn’t, you know, he walks out of the office is calling out and you know, plus I wasn’t, I have insomnia and sleep apnea. So it’s like, for me, sleep is, you know, a really hard thing to come by or I want to sleep where I shouldn’t be sleeping, you know, behind the wheel or, which is very dangerous. So I love that. My new job, I can take the train or the bus and alleviate the car altogether and it gives me time to think and meditate. So has the therapy helped? Well, I need to find a regular therapist. I’ve been seeing the psychiatrist and I’ve been calling around looking for therapists and it’s really been tough. Tough because of you, because you don’t feel like they understand your situation or just tough to connect with somebody or Tufts because everybody I’ve called is already has a capacity and they’re not taking new clients and I’m trying to find somebody that, you know, see like Monday through Friday evenings or weekends. And so the, the hours and all that fluctuation, it’s just been a,

 Speaker 2: (43:11)

uh, you know, a little challenging. I’ll say it’s been challenging, but I haven’t given up. But I know that I would benefit from speaking with somebody on a more frequent basis because I feel like I’m still

 Speaker 3: (43:26)

okay

 Speaker 2: (43:27)

processing all of this. And when I went out to visit one of my cousins in Arizona, um, a few months ago, I mentioned to his wife that what was going on about this whole DNA thing and she said that she saw something on TV and so I would immediately searched for it and it was a support group and I joined the support group and I started reading all of the stories and I was just blown away that all these people are going through the safety show and it’s like those damn kits are so cheap now. And you know, there’s some of them two for one and, and it changes people’s lives. You just don’t know. And I think even though I thought it’s a possibility, I didn’t really think it all through, but if I had a chance to go back and do it all again, yeah, I would still do it. What I do it in 2013 no, I probably would have gotten, you know, a lot earlier. As soon as I first heard about it, I would’ve taken it more seriously. Yeah. Wow. Had you, I mean, I feel like

 Speaker 1: (44:32)

that could be the name of the podcast is like, had I known, had you known, how do we know? And you know, could we, what would we do differently? 

Speaker 2: (44:40)

The other sad part is that my sister, when I met her at her door, she said Dad and I did 23 and me,

 Speaker 1: (44:49)

oh my gosh, people talk to me about 23 and me and I only did the ancestry DNA. I went to the wrong store. You know. So this is like the American tale move. Right? So if you’re, if you’re not in the bullets right there, right, right. But I am,

 Speaker 2: (45:06)

Shelly went and bought the 23 and me the next day I ordered it and got the results and though he was there, he was number one on my list and she was number two. So there was no, no doubting it. It’s not bs like my brother wants to, you know, 

Speaker 1: (45:25)

does he still sort of say it’s bs where he, 

Speaker 2: (45:28)

he knows that it’s true, but I think he, I don’t know if he feels like it changed things or, 

Speaker 1: (45:37)

or if all it did was deliver heartbreak, what’s the point anyway? And that’s what’s bs. Yeah. 

Speaker 2: (45:42)

You know, he talks to one of his coworkers about it and it was funny because the guy has a, you know, a lot of siblings and he said, well all of us have different dates so you’re not going through anything that’s too unique. But my brother actually put my mom on the line and hold you a little bit more accountable than I did because I couldn’t yell at her. I couldn’t argue with her. And I just thought, my mom’s already 75 years old. I don’t know how much time we’re going to have left if I died tomorrow or if she, you know, anything could happen in this world. I’d want to be happy. I want to have a good relationship with her for whatever time we have left. I don’t want to spend time yelling or being pissed off about it. It is what it is and now I can work from this point. But my brother told her, you were never going to tell us where you, you were going to take it to the grave at my mom’s said, yeah. So I’m just grateful that my brother did it, that I did it and that I know because had she passed away and then I found out then I probably would have had a lot of it 

Speaker 1: (46:49)

are on answer questions. Yeah. I would have been pissed. Like really? I asked you how many times? Yeah. Rightfully so. Rightfully so. You’d be angry. Yeah. Wow. What a story. Um, do you have any advice for anybody that is new to this situation? 

Speaker 2: (47:13)

I would say, uh, join the, the online group because it is beneficial hearing other people’s stories and you find out that your reality is not, I mean, I hate to say this, but you read of the stories and you think, wow, this person really has it.

Speaker 1: (47:31)

That one’s really bad. My situation is all at buddy with somebody with a worse story. 

Speaker 2: (47:37)

But I hate to say that because you know, there’s always gonna be somebody with that war story, but where families have totally Sean people on where they don’t want to deal with them anymore, the mother doesn’t, you know, people just cut people out of their lives because of this. And you know, and I’m not one of those stories. If anything that sadness, like I said, would be just that I didn’t get to meet my dad. Um, but you know, it really depends on the person. If you’re able to handle all of this. Um, I think w r cof, the founder of the group says there should be a warning label. You know, that this could change your life for good. And you may find out some things that you’re not ready for. This could totally destroy your family, right? So if you’re willing to go through all of this and you know, your mom ain’t never talked to you again and you’re, you know, some of these people reach out to their bio father and it’s like the bio father might be kind of interested, but maybe he’s married and she wants nothing. The wife has, wants nothing to do with you or the bowel father wants nothing to do with you.

 Speaker 1: (48:34)

I couldn’t, maybe those warnings should be very detailed, right? It’d be like, these are all the things that could happen,

 Speaker 2: (48:40)

right? These are the side effects. So, um, and I, I have to think about like my situation where I don’t know how my father would have reacted if I came knocking on his door. My sister says he would have been open and she says, and he would’ve taken you in. He would’ve, oh, open with open arms, you know? So I take solace in that. I find comfort in that and, um, that he would have loved me unconditionally, is what it sounds like. So, so I just want to stay there with that and that’s the best we can all hope for. Yeah. So, um, and that’s where it is, but I just think that you gotta get completely through how it’s going to not only affect you but everyone else around you. And if you’re willing to still go the limit, then go for it.

 Speaker 1: (49:35)

Man. I wish we could, I wish we could have a warning like that and then take a survey of how many people read it and continue to go through with it. Because I think people still think, well, that’s not me. Right. It’s not my family. Right.

 Speaker 2: (49:50)

And some of those worst case scenarios, I mean, there are so many variations of stories, like maybe the mother was raped or you know, maybe it was incest. And that was my biggest thing. That I was so afraid that it was going to be something really dark. And I thought, what if she was raped? What if she was, you know, it was a product. I’m a product of incest or some other situation that

 Speaker 1: (50:13)

when the man contacted me about, uh, about my situation, that was where my, I, my mind just went to dark. Like, I didn’t know what it meant, but I was so afraid he was going to have really dark information and he didn’t. But, but to, I mean he yet devastating information and a lot of ways, but not as dark as I had imagined. Yeah. So I really relate to that, um, to the way that your mind opens up to ideas that you never thought about and you just never ever fathomed. Yeah.

 Speaker 2: (50:45)

Just like with my genetics, cause I didn’t really know. Uh, and then my sister says, oh, well, you know, we have a Lebanese blood. And so to find out that my dad’s dad was from, uh, Lebanon. And so that was just really mind blowing. And an then doing my research and finding out his dad was from Saudi Arabia. And so it’s just kind of crazy. I never expected any of that to be that close in my, you know, linkage of my family, like maybe way, way back, like centuries or something with Spain or something like that. But this is like just, you know, two generations ago where they were in another country.

 Speaker 1: (51:27)

So much traveling right in your roots. Right. Right. On all sides.

 Speaker 2: (51:31)

Yeah. So I’m just in awe of all of that. Um,

 Speaker 1: (51:37)

yeah. Wow. What a story. I’m so grateful you came in today. Thank you so much. Um, yeah, I don’t eat like time and time again. I’m just stunned at the end of these are just, I don’t, I don’t know what to say, so I guess we’ll just say goodbye when we’re done, but, uh, I’ll turn the alternate Mike off. But um, yeah. Wow. Thank you so much, and thank you for being so vulnerable. Thank you. With me was really awesome. Thank you. I think people really need to hear that.